Cuba

Episode 4

December 18, 2025
In Episode 4, Ian and Justine travel to Cuba—a country now nearly impossible for U.S. citizens to visit due to strict travel restrictions. Despite the barriers, Our Looney Planet takes you there. Join Ian and Justine for a lively, intimate conversation with Cuban journalist Liz Oliva Fernández, whose stories and documentary footage lead us far off the beaten path and deep into one of the world’s most authentic, resilient, and remarkably preserved cultures.

Together, Liz, Ian, and Justine unpack what Cuba is really like today in a conversation that swings effortlessly from the serious to the giggle-inducing, enriched by striking archival footage from Ian’s Globe Trekker Cuba episode, filmed back in 1995.

And if Cuba ever needs a British ambassador, Ian Wright is clearly ready for the post. Barely able to stay seated, his enthusiasm for the island is utterly unbridled. Having traveled to Cuba many times for both work and pleasure, Ian joins Liz in transporting us from Cuba’s extraordinary history straight into its vibrant, complicated present.

Chapters
00:00 Ian loves Cuba
00:35 Meet Liz Oliva Fernandez
10:39 Fidel Castro and Cuba
11:53 Just what the dolphin ordered
13:39 “Che” lives
16:54 Tourism in Cuba
17:34 Swamped with crap
21:21 Tough travels
22:57 A Cuban’s first impression of the USA
26:48 Salsa, Cha-cha-chá, Mambo, the Rumba
31:19 The ingenuity of Cuban recycling
33:14 Cuba’s Classic Cars
34:32 Crime or No Crime, that is the question
35:30 Hitchhiking in Cuba
36:34 Ian’s hot take on Cuban food
39:52 Even the water tastes like rum
42:04 Hopes for Cuba
48:26 Like Japan

Listen on your favorite platform

Episode Cast & Crew

Hosts: Ian Wright and Justine Shapiro
Guest: Liz Oliva Fernández
Producer: Ken Schneider
Editor: Thomas Lorne
Sound Mix: Dan Olmsted

Kuku Studios, Berkeley, California USA
Haverhill Music Hub, Haverhill UK

News footage courtesy of Belly of the Beast

Major Funding

Season 1 was made possible thanks to a grant from The Khosravi Family Trust.

Our Loonies

Mrugesh Thaker
Joseph Tindle
Prateek Shrivastava
Rajeev
Mike Matera
John Miles
Nikhil Patel
Saurabh Chaudhary
Craig Richardson

Bhavika Gadhvi
Joe Guzman
Heather Munro
Robert Paul
Ignacio Gil
Abigail
Richard Logan
Era Orozco
James Wheaton
Melanie Rudzinski
Cliff Matheson
José Pizarro-Otero
Rob Furber

 
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Season 1 Credits

With gratitude to those from Pilot Films and Television, UK who helped create Our Looney Planet

Ian Cross, founder of Pilot Productions and creator of the Lonely Planet / Globe Trekker TV series.

Deb Marrow Cox
Anne Bogart
Sarah Blinco
Sanyukta Shrestha
Helen Roberts
Richard Howard
Chris Hampson
Amanda Kramer
Ian Ritchie
Neville Farmer

Megan McCormick
Emma Cahusac
Angela Gourley
Rachael Heaton-Armstrong
Andy Margetson 
Lucy Cooke 
Bini Adams  
David Tibballs 
Saami Sabiti

Nick Robbins
Nigel Kinnings
Lynn Mitchell
Georgie Burrell
Neil Harvey
Simon Niblett
Ian sciacaluga
Rik Lander 
Peter Boyd Maclean
Tim Knight

With gratitude

Rachel Mercy Simpson, Berkeley Community College
Interns: Seungjun Kim, Martin Mercy, Matan Ziv, Manny Cox

Betsy Rate, UC Berkeley School of Journalism
Interns: Negar Ajayebi, Alicia Chang, Zane Karram and Fuwad Ahamad

Rob Burchell, The Hall Media Facilities, UK

Honorbarre.com
Cardiowithcarah.com
The Center for Creative Exploration

Jeanette McDonald-Wright 
Rie Aldous
Jackie Shroff
Tony & Chesney Mumford
Marvin and Mr. Monk
Paul Mourey & Karim Crippa
David Orelowitz & Lauren Heymann 
Vicente Franco
Jim Capobianco

Lucy Kaplan
Mateo Evaristo Shapiro Bolado
y Carlos Bolado
Tony Cataldo
Carah Herring
Année Kim
Stephanie Mackley
Marcia and Paul Masse
Paul Zaentz
Chaz Blanc

Michael Wilson
Mick Erausquin
Elizabeth Gray
Catherine Girardeau
Jason Reinier
Roopa Ramamoorthi
Laura O'Brien Crisp
Guy Reingold
Esme Agilar
Sonia Mistry
Sherry Sly
Claudia Erzinger

With Gratitude To Those We’ve Lost

Jonathan Leffman, Sound Recordist
Stephen Luscombe, Composer
Paul Pierre Standifer, Fixer/Producer
Leslie Weiner, Producer
Roger Whitby, Sound Recordist
Nick Corey Wright, Director
Anthony Bourdain

For MATLANA

Executive Producer: Justine Shapiro
Series Producer: Liliana Cortés
Producer & Editor: Gregory Scharpen
Producer & Editor: Thomas Lorne
Producer: Stephen Lennhoff

Title Animation - Zazie Capobianco, Aerial Contrivance Workshop
Media Management & Website: Sage Brucia
Bookkeeper: Craig Paull
Fundraising Strategist: Bri Castellini
Legal: Richard J. Lee Law Group and Madison Karsenty, DCP Law

Produced by MATLANA a 501(c)3 organization

MATLANA Board Members

Deirdre English
Jocelyn Leroux
Jena Resner
Justine Shapiro

  • 0:00:00.160 - 0:00:03.120

    What threat is Cuba to anybody

    0:00:03.120 - 0:00:06.240

    rather than, you know, they

    dance you off the dance floor?

    0:00:06.240 - 0:00:08.000

    That's the only threat I can see

    0:00:08.000 - 0:00:09.520

    and that's quite a big threat.

    0:00:09.520 - 0:00:13.880

    I feel threatened by that.

    0:00:13.880 - 0:00:19.760

    VO: Hi, I'm Ian. I'm Justine.

    0:00:19.760 - 0:00:26.960

    Back in the '90s, we hosted Lonely Planet,

    also known as Globe Trekker or Pilot Guides.

    0:00:26.960 - 0:00:33.760

    Now, we're back. Welcome to our

    Looney Planet with Ian and Justine.

    0:00:33.760 - 0:00:36.080

    Yeah. Woohoo.

    0:00:36.080 - 0:00:39.760

    Good morning. Good morning, Justine. My god.

    0:00:39.760 - 0:00:42.800

    God, that was loud. Good morning. Yes. Well, it's

    0:00:42.800 - 0:00:45.680

    I'm feeling fragile right now.

    I- What the-

    0:00:45.680 - 0:00:47.680

    It's dark where you are. What's going on? Yeah,

    0:00:47.680 - 0:00:54.400

    It's 5 in the morning where I am in Berkeley,

    California. What time is it there in the UK?

    0:00:54.400 - 0:00:55.840

    Half 1 in the afternoon.

    0:00:55.840 - 0:00:56.800

    Yeah, it's 5.

    0:00:56.800 - 0:00:59.360

    Feel bad now, geez-

    5:30 in the morning. Oh, wow.

    0:00:59.360 - 0:01:04.720

    Ian, do you know why we're doing this

    recording at 5:30 in the morning, my time,

    0:01:04.720 - 0:01:06.160

    when it's dark outside?

    0:01:06.160 - 0:01:10.400

    Yes, because we've got a a guest

    0:01:10.400 - 0:01:13.280

    all the way from Cuba, which is fantastic.

    0:01:13.280 - 0:01:16.560

    Yeah, but we could do it when it

    was 8:00 in the morning, my time,

    0:01:16.560 - 0:01:20.560

    12:00 her time, and 5 hours behind the UK.

    0:01:20.560 - 0:01:23.680

    Why else am I up at 5:30 in the morning?

    0:01:23.680 - 0:01:25.520

    Can anyone out there guess?

    0:01:25.520 - 0:01:27.600

    Okay. It could be a contest.

    0:01:27.600 - 0:01:30.000

    Really? There's two reasons, is there?

    0:01:30.000 - 0:01:31.440

    Well, you tell me.

    0:01:31.440 - 0:01:33.120

    Well, that's what it seems like. So, one reason,

    0:01:33.120 - 0:01:35.760

    obviously, you're doing this

    podcast with Liz from Cuba,

    0:01:35.760 - 0:01:38.960

    and the other reason is......

    0:01:38.960 - 0:01:44.560

    that the connectivity issues in

    Cuba with the Wi-Fi work best.

    0:01:44.560 - 0:01:46.480

    Don't give it away. Don't give it away.

    0:01:46.480 - 0:01:51.120

    But it's but I think it's part

    of the story because I'm finding

    0:01:51.120 - 0:01:55.520

    that in some places where we want

    to talk to people over, you know,

    0:01:55.520 - 0:01:57.280

    video conference... it's quite difficult.

    0:01:57.280 - 0:02:00.320

    the connection is really not taken for granted.

    0:02:00.320 - 0:02:02.080

    Yeah. When we was talking to Bobby Chinn

    0:02:02.080 - 0:02:03.680

    in Egypt

    Yeah

    0:02:03.680 - 0:02:08.240

    and the connection with shite,

    I'm like wait till you talk to someone in Cuba

    0:02:08.240 - 0:02:09.760

    if you think Egypt was bad

    0:02:09.760 - 0:02:13.680

    cuz when I was there I think I was

    only there like eight years ago. Yeah.

    0:02:13.680 - 0:02:16.960

    And the connection was just appalling.

    0:02:16.960 - 0:02:19.120

    When were you last in Cuba?

    0:02:19.120 - 0:02:20.560

    About 8 years ago.

    0:02:20.560 - 0:02:23.360

    But when did you shoot the

    show in Cuba? That was 95.

    0:02:23.360 - 0:02:25.920

    That's that's that's when

    Fidel Castro was still in

    0:02:25.920 - 0:02:29.751

    charge. [overlapping] Only about 25-30 years ago.

    0:02:29.751 - 0:02:32.400

    [Ian VO] The biggest island in the Caribbean.

    0:02:32.400 - 0:02:35.120

    All the other islands can fit into it.

    0:02:35.120 - 0:02:37.680

    And hopefully in about 10 minutes,

    0:02:37.680 - 0:02:40.080

    I'm going to land right on top of it.

    0:02:40.080 - 0:02:42.480

    Cuba! Woo!

    0:02:42.480 - 0:02:53.200

    [indistinct Ian screams of joy]

    0:02:53.200 - 0:02:55.600

    But I've been back cuz I love it so much.

    0:02:55.600 - 0:02:58.080

    I've been back quite a bit and

    we've friends there and stuff.

    0:02:58.080 - 0:03:01.195

    Oh my gosh. Lucky you. Oh, I'm so jealous.

    0:03:01.195 - 0:03:02.400

    Ian: Can I just say-

    Justine: I've never been.

    0:03:02.400 - 0:03:06.240

    I did an amazing program called Tough Trains

    0:03:06.240 - 0:03:07.520

    probably about 10 years ago.

    0:03:07.520 - 0:03:12.080

    Ian, I had no idea. I thought the

    one and only time you'd been to Cuba

    0:03:12.080 - 0:03:15.760

    was in 1995 when you filmed

    the Globe Trekker show there.

    0:03:15.760 - 0:03:17.040

    No. No.

    0:03:17.040 - 0:03:18.800

    Wow-

    Can't get enough of it.

    0:03:18.800 - 0:03:21.360

    You must be so excited to meet our guest.

    0:03:21.360 - 0:03:22.480

    Yeah. Oh, yeah.

    0:03:22.480 - 0:03:24.480

    So, welcome Liz!

    0:03:24.480 - 0:03:26.080

    Welcome, Liz! Hi there!

    0:03:26.080 - 0:03:27.280

    Nice to see you.

    0:03:27.280 - 0:03:29.280

    Hi, guys. It's a pleasure for me

    0:03:29.280 - 0:03:31.440

    being with you guys today.

    0:03:31.440 - 0:03:33.280

    Oh, the pleasure is all ours.

    0:03:33.280 - 0:03:36.800

    Thank you so much for starting

    your day with us today.

    0:03:37.840 - 0:03:42.400

    I have so many questions for you

    because I don't know anything about you

    0:03:42.400 - 0:03:47.760

    but can you kind of just give me the basics?

    Like, okay, I'll tell you mine. I'm 62.

    0:03:47.760 - 0:03:51.440

    I have a younger sister. My mom

    and dad divorced when I was six.

    0:03:51.440 - 0:03:56.000

    They're both still alive in their late

    80s. And I was born in South Africa,

    0:03:56.000 - 0:04:00.960

    grew up in the States, and made

    documentary films and hosted this show.

    0:04:00.960 - 0:04:03.520

    And I have a son who's 24

    0:04:03.520 - 0:04:06.480

    and not interested in dating. You?

    0:04:06.480 - 0:04:09.025

    Oh my god, that was a lot.

    0:04:09.025 - 0:04:10.480

    [Ian laughing] You, now!

    0:04:10.480 - 0:04:13.600

    That's that's my turn. Okay. I'm 31 years old.

    0:04:13.600 - 0:04:15.760

    I'm an Afro Cuban journalist.

    0:04:15.760 - 0:04:17.760

    I'm also an activist.

    0:04:17.760 - 0:04:22.800

    I'm a single daughter. I'm married.

    0:04:22.800 - 0:04:26.080

    I love Cuba and I've been in Cuba my entire life.

    0:04:26.080 - 0:04:31.520

    I'm really anxious to see like the

    most countries that I can, so far.

    0:04:31.520 - 0:04:32.080

    Yeah.

    0:04:32.080 - 0:04:36.400

    But until now, Cuba still is my favorite place.

    0:04:36.400 - 0:04:37.520

    Have you traveled a lot?

    0:04:37.520 - 0:04:42.400

    Because we wanted to talk to you

    a couple of months ago and then

    0:04:43.440 - 0:04:47.280

    well you... I think you went

    to Guinea Basau? Is that right?

    0:04:47.280 - 0:04:48.000

    Exactly.

    0:04:48.000 - 0:04:49.760

    In West Africa?

    0:04:49.760 - 0:04:50.240

    Yeah.

    0:04:50.240 - 0:04:52.880

    What were you going there for? Wow.

    0:04:52.880 - 0:04:57.360

    Well, I was there working because

    0:04:57.360 - 0:05:01.680

    as I said at the beginning, I work

    for independent US media outlet

    0:05:01.680 - 0:05:04.400

    called Belly of the Beast. So, I-

    0:05:04.400 - 0:05:06.240

    Belly of the Beast?

    0:05:06.240 - 0:05:10.480

    Belly of the Beast. Check it

    out. Belly of the Beast Cuba.

    0:05:10.480 - 0:05:15.760

    And you're a journalist for them. And

    are they like an online and print?

    0:05:15.760 - 0:05:18.960

    or who does print anymore?

    Are they online news source?

    0:05:19.600 - 0:05:23.120

    Well, yeah, but also we do documentaries.

    0:05:23.120 - 0:05:25.840

    That's the main thing about Belly of the Beast.

    0:05:25.840 - 0:05:29.360

    We do documentaries about the reality in Cuba,

    0:05:29.360 - 0:05:32.560

    about Cuba, about the relations

    between the United States and Cuba.

    0:05:32.560 - 0:05:36.640

    I'm intrigued about... because obviously

    when I was there 30 years ago and then

    0:05:36.640 - 0:05:41.200

    10 years ago, that that there

    wasn't the freedom there.

    0:05:41.200 - 0:05:43.280

    So when you're here, which is amazing,

    0:05:43.280 - 0:05:46.800

    to tell me that you're doing

    documentaries about life in Cuba,

    0:05:46.800 - 0:05:53.040

    you know, via a sort of American outlet, that to

    me is like, wow, I didn't think that was possible.

    0:05:53.040 - 0:05:56.640

    So in my opinion, as a journalist,

    that's something like censorship

    0:05:56.640 - 0:06:02.080

    is something that you have to face in

    in your life in one way or another one,

    0:06:02.080 - 0:06:07.600

    but so far uh we haven't

    faced that yet. Of course.

    0:06:07.600 - 0:06:12.720

    Sometimes you are getting sassy

    with the news and you're trying to-

    0:06:12.720 - 0:06:15.360

    Wait, did you say you're getting sassy?

    0:06:15.360 - 0:06:17.183

    Yeah. Well, I don't know if that's-

    0:06:17.183 - 0:06:21.280

    Oh, I Iike that! Getting sassy with the

    news. I love that expression, it's great!

    0:06:21.280 - 0:06:23.680

    That says so much.

    0:06:23.680 - 0:06:26.240

    Liz, what, just quickly, sorry.

    0:06:26.240 - 0:06:29.680

    Give us an outline of what

    kind of programs you're making

    0:06:29.680 - 0:06:31.840

    and so then we get an idea.

    0:06:31.840 - 0:06:34.240

    Or is it top secret, or is it just general,

    0:06:34.240 - 0:06:38.400

    or... what can you sort of do and

    not do and how political can you get?

    0:06:38.400 - 0:06:41.920

    Yeah. And what are some of the favorite

    stories you've you've reported?

    0:06:41.920 - 0:06:45.520

    Well, my favorite stories to report is about the

    0:06:45.520 - 0:06:49.360

    given people when we tell

    stories about... Ernesto.

    0:06:49.360 - 0:06:56.160

    I love that kind of stories.

    0:06:56.160 - 0:07:00.107

    [speaking Spanish]

    0:07:00.107 - 0:07:02.080

    [Liz VO]

    0:07:02.080 - 0:07:04.960

    This is where Ernesto goes to get his prosthetics

    0:07:04.960 - 0:07:06.400

    free of charge

    0:07:06.400 - 0:07:10.560

    but Ernesto can't get the

    specialized prosthetics he needs

    0:07:10.560 - 0:07:14.400

    because it's illegal for Cuba to buy them.

    0:07:14.400 - 0:07:20.640

    Liz, we tried to find a time to talk to you a

    couple times. Once you were in Guinea, Basau

    0:07:20.640 - 0:07:24.640

    and then once your Abuelita,

    your grandmother, got sick.

    0:07:25.600 - 0:07:27.824

    So first of all how is she doing now

    0:07:27.824 - 0:07:34.160

    Well, thank you.

    and how was the healthcare system working for her?

    0:07:34.160 - 0:07:37.040

    Oh that was lovely that you remember that.

    0:07:39.280 - 0:07:43.520

    Well my grandma is doing great right now.

    0:07:43.520 - 0:07:44.020

    Yay!

    0:07:44.640 - 0:07:49.280

    Well, how old is your grandmother? And you were

    talking about growing up in Cuba. What years-

    0:07:49.280 - 0:07:51.520

    you said you're 31. I can't do the math.

    0:07:51.520 - 0:07:54.080

    What years were you growing up in Cuba?

    0:07:54.080 - 0:07:57.040

    Well, my grandma is 89.

    Okay.

    0:07:59.200 - 0:08:02.800

    I just grew up in the 90s, during the 90s.

    0:08:02.800 - 0:08:08.240

    And I think that it was really different from the

    Cuba that the kids are growing up in right now.

    0:08:08.240 - 0:08:10.000

    We just have like a simple life.

    0:08:10.000 - 0:08:12.080

    We don't have a lot of

    0:08:12.080 - 0:08:14.080

    things that people

    0:08:14.080 - 0:08:17.760

    now need, to feel like,

    okay, this is a decent life.

    0:08:17.760 - 0:08:18.928

    But we were happy.

    0:08:18.928 - 0:08:20.361

    Yeah.

    0:08:20.361 - 0:08:25.063

    And could your grandmother get

    the medications that she needed?

    0:08:25.063 - 0:08:27.896

    Did you face- did you encounter,

    0:08:27.896 - 0:08:32.873

    you know, the obstacles or did things go well for you

    0:08:32.873 - 0:08:34.418

    with the health system there?

    0:08:34.418 - 0:08:35.405

    Yeah.

    0:08:35.405 - 0:08:37.631

    We are really lucky because my mom is a doctor

    0:08:37.631 - 0:08:43.586

    so we don't have to take my

    grandma to the primary care system

    0:08:43.586 - 0:08:47.825

    to take care of them because we can- my mom can take care of them at

    home.

    0:08:47.825 - 0:08:50.021

    That's a privilege.

    0:08:50.021 - 0:08:55.837

    So if she needs an IV, my mom's going to give her an IV because we

    have IVs at home.

    0:08:55.837 - 0:08:59.294

    But it's possible that we take her to the policlínico

    0:08:59.294 - 0:09:07.108

    It's a kind of urgent care system and this is in the neighborhoods.

    0:09:07.108 - 0:09:10.342

    Cuba has a really great

    infrastructure.

    0:09:10.342 - 0:09:16.379

    You have urgent care locations throughout Cuba in lots of different

    neighborhoods.

    0:09:16.379 - 0:09:22.995

    Yeah. Well, we have consultorio that is exactly in your block.

    0:09:22.995 - 0:09:26.819

    It's one doctor for around... Yeah, a small clinic.

    0:09:26.819 - 0:09:31.187

    The clinic is downstairs, and upstairs is the house of the doctor.

    0:09:31.187 - 0:09:34.432

    So you have the same doctor almost for your entire life.

    0:09:34.432 - 0:09:37.718

    The same doctor that your mom had when she was pregnant with you.

    0:09:37.718 - 0:09:41.421

    Then you were born and he was also

    your doctor

    0:09:41.421 - 0:09:44.752

    and he's living in the same neighborhood that you do.

    0:09:44.752 - 0:09:47.135

    So he's seeing you growing up.

    0:09:47.135 - 0:09:50.817

    The doctor is following you your entire life.

    0:09:50.817 - 0:09:53.466

    In Cuba, you don't have to go far to see a doctor.

    0:09:53.466 - 0:09:56.567

    [Speaking Spanish]

    0:09:58.159 - 0:10:02.589

    That's your médico de familia, like a family doctor.

    0:10:02.589 - 0:10:09.293

    So, are you able to get them, even though your mother is a doctor and she's got access,

    0:10:09.293 - 0:10:12.751

    is she able to get the medications that your grandmother needs?

    0:10:13.289 - 0:10:18.746

    Well, the health care system

    has been really impacted by the US sanctions on Cuba.

    0:10:18.746 - 0:10:20.911

    So, we don't have lab tests.

    0:10:21.595 - 0:10:24.664

    And the medications that my that my grandma needs,

    0:10:24.664 - 0:10:29.594

    I have it, because I have friends, I have family who live outside of Cuba.

    0:10:29.594 - 0:10:36.287

    So, we say, "Okay, could you send me these medications and these

    medications because I need it for my grandma."

    0:10:36.287 - 0:10:39.695

    But that's not reality for most of the people.

    0:10:39.695 - 0:10:46.311

    So if you had access, then your health system

    0:10:46.311 - 0:10:48.668

    would probably be one of the best

    in the world I would imagine.

    0:10:48.668 - 0:10:49.646

    Yeah.

    0:10:49.646 - 0:10:53.470

    Because the training and everything... is it also, it's free

    education

    0:10:53.470 - 0:11:00.000

    you've got access to. As well, educational cuz that was one of Fidel's big things wasn't it?

    0:11:00.000 - 0:11:03.299

    When he came in, it was like, access for the people.

    0:11:03.299 - 0:11:05.905

    And for me,

    0:11:05.905 - 0:11:10.829

    I think as a politician or a person

    in charge of the country,

    0:11:10.829 - 0:11:15.235

    love him or hate him, I think he actually, probably,

    0:11:15.235 - 0:11:23.047

    95% of what he said

    he'd do, he actually did, I think, for Cuba, which is extraordinarily rare for any leader

    0:11:23.047 - 0:11:27.463

    of a country, because before that, in my thinking, it was America's toilet.

    0:11:27.463 - 0:11:30.616

    and they were just using

    it as a thing. And of course,

    0:11:30.616 - 0:11:33.192

    no Cuban was getting anything.

    0:11:33.192 - 0:11:37.119

    And then you had like 52 people come

    over on a boat.

    0:11:37.119 - 0:11:41.800

    19 of them survived and went into the mountains.

    0:11:41.800 - 0:11:48.177

    3 years later, they've taken over

    Cuba. That is just an off the scale story.

    0:11:48.177 - 0:11:53.609

    I mean, amazing. Amazing. And he promised so much and

    delivered so much.

    0:11:53.609 - 0:11:59.555

    So, Liz, there's this crazy moment in the show that Ian did in Cuba

    30 years ago.

    0:11:59.555 - 0:12:01.315

    I watched the video.

    0:12:01.315 - 0:12:05.861

    So Liz, that dolphin park, Ian says that it was turned into a

    0:12:05.861 - 0:12:09.496

    therapeutic center by Fidel Castro.

    0:12:09.496 - 0:12:13.187

    It was when I was there, that's what it was. Yeah.

    0:12:13.187 - 0:12:19.732

    So Fidel's, that was, I guess that was a big part of what Cuba was all about was

    0:12:19.732 - 0:12:23.173

    was improving healthcare for people and for like

    0:12:23.173 - 0:12:27.384

    troubled kids or something or whatever to, you know, relax and

    0:12:27.384 - 0:12:30.679

    be in the pools and the dolphins would help them out and stuff like that.

    0:12:30.679 - 0:12:33.584

    Except for me.

    0:12:33.584 - 0:12:36.194

    This is a dolphin pool just outside Hogan where sick kids

    0:12:36.194 - 0:12:38.622

    can come and splash around with the

    dolphins.

    0:12:38.622 - 0:12:45.596

    Feel the vibe, and I'm certainly feeling.

    0:12:48.138 - 0:12:52.783

    The mad thing is, like everyone

    says, like the dolphins are so spiritual. Yeah.

    0:12:52.783 - 0:12:55.050

    And they can, like, see into your soul.

    0:12:55.050 - 0:12:57.830

    The dolphin knows whether you're a bad person.

    0:12:57.830 - 0:12:59.207

    They hated me!

    0:13:00.576 - 0:13:02.899

    This one doesn't like me much.

    0:13:02.899 - 0:13:04.734

    Ian VO: I'd only been in there for 5 minutes! Do you see?

    0:13:04.734 - 0:13:07.579

    Then they're trying to get me arm! They right had the measure of me.

    0:13:07.579 - 0:13:10.484

    Dolphins are one of nature's most caring animals

    0:13:10.484 - 0:13:15.018

    and they quickly form a bond between themselves and humans.

    0:13:18.480 - 0:13:20.950

    Well, at least they do in most cases.

    0:13:22.368 - 0:13:27.078

    I think what happened as I was enjoying myself, I went down underwater

    0:13:27.078 - 0:13:30.000

    I was kicking out with my legs,

    booted one in the stomach,

    0:13:30.000 - 0:13:34.025

    one of the dolphins, and from then on, they just went mental at me.

    0:13:35.541 - 0:13:38.797

    So... bloody things. Don't you trust them dolphins.

    0:13:39.775 - 0:13:41.772

    Yeah, Liz.

    0:13:41.772 - 0:13:44.663

    So in the Globe Trekker

    episode that Ian did,

    0:13:44.663 - 0:13:52.146

    he goes to the university there and this was, what, Ian you did that show in Cuba 30 years ago, right?

    0:13:52.782 - 0:13:57.199

    The most important battle to secure victory for the revolution

    0:13:57.199 - 0:13:58.460

    was fought here in Santa Clara.

    0:13:58.460 - 0:14:00.771

    It was led by Che Guevara

    0:14:00.771 - 0:14:02.956

    and he actually drove this bulldozer

    0:14:02.956 - 0:14:06.677

    into those trains that were full of arms for the government soldiers.

    0:14:06.677 - 0:14:10.560

    Three days later they took over the whole of the country.

    0:14:13.280 - 0:14:16.352

    Che Guevara is so popular in Santa Clara that

    0:14:16.352 - 0:14:19.209

    they've even named a university after him.

    0:14:19.209 - 0:14:22.168

    Everyone must take a course in Che studies.

    0:14:22.168 - 0:14:25.989

    This is Che University and I swear everybody loves him here.

    0:14:25.989 - 0:14:29.291

    What happened after the

    battle of Santa Clara? He came here.

    0:14:29.291 - 0:14:31.256

    He made a big speech on education,

    0:14:31.256 - 0:14:35.805

    changing the system and making it available for everyone.

    0:14:56.800 - 0:14:59.727

    Did Che Guevara wear a beret?

    Yeah.

    0:14:59.727 - 0:15:04.142

    Did he wear a t-shirt with Che Guevara on?

    No. No. No.

    0:15:06.720 - 0:15:09.165

    Is that still happening, Liz?

    0:15:09.165 - 0:15:12.458

    Is there still an interest in Che Guevara?

    0:15:12.458 - 0:15:18.325

    And are students political or what's on their t-shirts now?

    0:15:18.325 - 0:15:23.937

    I think that the the vibe is completely different, maybe 30 years

    ago

    0:15:23.937 - 0:15:30.650

    that like people was really involved with the process and there's a lot of enthusiasm about

    0:15:30.650 - 0:15:40.168

    the revolution itself and the idea of it became in a better country

    and a country with more social justice.

    0:15:40.168 - 0:15:42.759

    But I think like my generation and

    0:15:42.759 - 0:15:48.240

    the generations that came after me

    0:15:48.240 - 0:15:52.312

    they don't have this concept about a better world is possible

    0:15:52.312 - 0:15:56.832

    because they just survived a crisis after a crisis.

    0:15:56.832 - 0:16:03.071

    When I was there, I would say it was not

    half and half, more younger people,

    0:16:03.071 - 0:16:07.408

    especially setting up their own businesses and things like

    that, wanting to grow more

    0:16:07.408 - 0:16:12.510

    rather than, you know, have about four jobs just to try and make ends

    meet.

    0:16:12.510 - 0:16:16.883

    How's the entrepreneurial situation in Cuba these days?

    0:16:16.883 - 0:16:20.472

    Entrepreneurs? For sure. After

    Obama

    0:16:20.472 - 0:16:26.352

    normalizations opening with Cuba. The entrepreneurship in Cuba just booming.

    0:16:26.352 - 0:16:29.058

    It was huge at that moment.

    0:16:29.058 - 0:16:33.257

    And I thought that it was gonna stop during the pandemic, but it's huge.

    0:16:33.257 - 0:16:35.291

    There's a lot of young people

    0:16:35.291 - 0:16:39.923

    trying to do business in Cuba, trying to create a future in Cuba.

    0:16:39.923 - 0:16:44.791

    I have- most of my friends that are still in Cuba are entrepreneurs.

    0:16:44.791 - 0:16:50.217

    Yeah. They just studying art, whatever. But now they are businesswomen.

    0:16:50.217 - 0:16:54.974

    And are those, Liz, are those are some of those businesses geared to

    tourism?

    0:16:54.974 - 0:17:03.459

    I mean, you know, Trump designated Cuba a terrorist state shortly after he became president.

    0:17:03.459 - 0:17:05.854

    Has that affected tourism?

    0:17:05.854 - 0:17:09.310

    Yeah, "state sponsor of terrorism." And that's, well,

    0:17:11.168 - 0:17:16.131

    tourism right now in Cuba is really low in my opinion.

    0:17:16.131 - 0:17:17.763

    I don't have the data

    0:17:17.763 - 0:17:24.154

    but you can notice just walking around all Havana in central Havana

    0:17:24.154 - 0:17:31.506

    that you barely see tourism, because it's not just affecting US citizens to come into Cuba.

    0:17:31.506 - 0:17:35.099

    It's affecting European citizens coming to Cuba, too.

    0:17:35.637 - 0:17:40.673

    Listen, you are going to see a golden age.

    0:17:40.673 - 0:17:43.541

    I'm telling you, because like what Ian said at the beginning,

    0:17:43.541 - 0:17:49.615

    Cuba's been isolated for so long, but the people and the culture is so incredibly

    rich.

    0:17:49.615 - 0:17:52.670

    It's so powerful, the culture in Cuba.

    0:17:52.670 - 0:17:59.778

    And because Cuba has kept all of the shit of the West

    0:17:59.778 - 0:18:03.982

    from permeating its beautiful borders,

    0:18:05.182 - 0:18:08.130

    you're not homogenized like the rest of the world.

    0:18:08.130 - 0:18:10.801

    I mean there are very few places, as Ian said, where you go and you

    0:18:10.801 - 0:18:13.495

    actually feel the authenticity of the

    place

    0:18:13.495 - 0:18:15.285

    its intrinsic self.A

    0:18:15.285 - 0:18:19.481

    And so the fact that Cuba has been isolated, eventually,

    0:18:19.481 - 0:18:25.614

    and I think in the not-too-long future or whatever that expression is

    0:18:26.054 - 0:18:27.928

    I think Cuba is going to become like

    0:18:27.928 - 0:18:31.783

    a tourism paradise for like 5 years because

    0:18:31.783 - 0:18:34.113

    everyone's going to go there when they can cuz

    0:18:34.113 - 0:18:35.404

    it's so unique

    0:18:35.404 - 0:18:41.596

    and then after 5 years of everyone going, it's going to turn into a homogenized kind of city

    0:18:41.596 - 0:18:43.044

    like every other country.

    0:18:43.044 - 0:18:47.354

    Havana will become like so many other great cities and

    0:18:47.354 - 0:18:52.092

    that look like all the other

    cities with all the franchise chain shops.

    0:18:52.092 - 0:18:56.085

    So be grateful that you've been isolated, cuz you will have your day.

    0:18:56.085 - 0:18:57.977

    I am sure.

    0:18:57.977 - 0:19:00.864

    Well, I don't know if we'll survive until that day, but

    0:19:00.864 - 0:19:01.971

    Oh, you will.

    0:19:01.971 - 0:19:06.160

    The thing is it's always, it's a real, like Justine says, it's a double-edged sword

    0:19:06.160 - 0:19:08.211

    because if you take the Malacon, Yeah.

    0:19:08.211 - 0:19:12.868

    Which is the best seafront of any city, let alone a capitalist city.

    0:19:12.868 - 0:19:17.834

    It's like three miles of just beautiful, you know, it's rough.

    0:19:17.834 - 0:19:23.685

    The sea comes over. You've got all the Spanish old buildings crumbling and there're people dancing.

    0:19:23.685 - 0:19:30.000

    There's about, when I was there 10

    years, there's about five restaurants along there and that's it.

    0:19:30.000 - 0:19:33.518

    There's nothing there which makes

    it brilliant. Do you know what I mean?

    0:19:33.518 - 0:19:41.284

    But within, you know, America coming in within, you know, clink of the eye,

    0:19:41.284 - 0:19:46.156

    you're going to have McDonald's, you're going to have KFC, you're going to have

    this, that, and the other. It's just going to take

    0:19:46.156 - 0:19:47.356

    over like that.

    0:19:47.600 - 0:19:49.866

    So that is the sort of double edge

    on one level.

    0:19:49.866 - 0:19:52.338

    Of course, you need, you know, we need to go.

    0:19:52.338 - 0:19:57.600

    Plus, like you say, Liz, I think that

    there'll be a mass migration to America as well.

    0:19:57.600 - 0:20:02.055

    So that for me that's that's the two huge problems that it would just-

    0:20:02.055 - 0:20:05.061

    frightening to say, because everyone in Cuba would say,

    0:20:05.061 - 0:20:09.257

    "no we would never lose identity or never-" which is true

    0:20:09.257 - 0:20:12.356

    but you're going to be just swamped with crap.

    0:20:12.992 - 0:20:14.918

    Yeah.

    0:20:15.260 - 0:20:18.634

    But what I don't know, when I think about

    0:20:19.661 - 0:20:27.363

    the future, or at least the Cuba that I really would like to see in the future.

    0:20:27.363 - 0:20:35.182

    That doesn't have anything to do with that kind of having Starbucks or McDonald's or KFC

    0:20:35.182 - 0:20:37.790

    What's the Cuba you'd like to see?

    0:20:40.391 - 0:20:44.858

    I would like to see the Cuba where access to culture

    0:20:44.858 - 0:20:50.749

    sports, science... and it was possible for kids

    0:20:50.749 - 0:20:57.383

    like no matter where your class... I

    would like to be a Cuba with more equality

    0:20:57.383 - 0:20:58.779

    with more social justice

    0:20:58.779 - 0:21:02.336

    But right now the scarcity

    is so bad

    0:21:02.336 - 0:21:08.971

    that even if you go to the doctor and you have you have someone seeing you

    0:21:08.971 - 0:21:12.693

    maybe they don't have the medications to give to you

    0:21:12.693 - 0:21:17.139

    or they don't have the test labs that you need

    0:21:17.139 - 0:21:20.785

    because of lack of resources and the lack of raw materials.

    0:21:20.785 - 0:21:26.142

    Can you - what's the travel

    arrangements for a Cuban to go abroad?

    0:21:26.142 - 0:21:28.075

    That's quite restricted, isn't it?

    0:21:28.075 - 0:21:31.191

    Well, but it's not because of Cuba.

    0:21:31.191 - 0:21:34.445

    It's because of the rest of the country-

    0:21:34.445 - 0:21:34.945

    -and the rest of the world.

    0:21:34.945 - 0:21:42.189

    Yeah, it's the rest of the world because as a citizen from the "third world,"

    0:21:42.189 - 0:21:49.005

    we need a lot of visas and a

    lot of requirements that we need to accomplish in order to do some traveling.

    0:21:49.005 - 0:21:55.105

    And so I just- and I have been thinking about traveling a lot

    0:21:55.105 - 0:21:58.848

    and how it became a privilege for the people

    0:21:58.848 - 0:22:05.020

    who are coming from the western countries to travel around the world without asking visas or

    0:22:05.020 - 0:22:07.562

    having any troubles to travel with.

    0:22:07.562 - 0:22:13.119

    Yeah. Unless you come from the Americas, I suppose, then

    it's a right pain in the ass to get to Cuba.

    0:22:13.119 - 0:22:17.836

    Well, you know, I was just thinking that, you just said earlier about the privilege Westerners have

    0:22:18.080 - 0:22:22.107

    around travel. And I think normally I don't really think about a visa

    0:22:22.107 - 0:22:27.549

    being something that will, you know, stop me from wanting to go somewhere

    0:22:27.549 - 0:22:31.842

    cuz, you know, for Westerners, we can go to so many places without visas.

    0:22:31.842 - 0:22:39.219

    But Liz, if you wanted to go to any place in South America, Central America, Mexico,

    0:22:39.219 - 0:22:42.012

    do you need a visa to go to those places from Cuba?

    0:22:42.012 - 0:22:44.131

    Yeah, I need a visa to go to the DR.

    0:22:44.131 - 0:22:46.050

    Dominican Republic?

    0:22:46.050 - 0:22:48.580

    DR, yeah.

    0:22:48.580 - 0:22:50.937

    You you need a visa to go there?

    0:22:50.937 - 0:22:53.176

    Gosh, that's... wow.

    0:22:53.176 - 0:22:58.570

    What is Cuba doing that's

    so bad that nobody wants Cubans? I'm sorry.

    0:22:58.570 - 0:23:04.633

    It's crazy, because the first time that I asked for a visa to travel to the United States,

    0:23:04.633 - 0:23:10.392

    I asked for a visa in Cuba to a Colombian embassy to go to Colombia to ask for a visa

    0:23:10.392 - 0:23:15.319

    to go to the United States because...

    0:23:15.319 - 0:23:17.690

    that was to come back to Cuba to go to the United States.

    0:23:17.690 - 0:23:18.805

    That was crazy.

    0:23:18.805 - 0:23:21.794

    So where where did you go in the United

    States?

    0:23:21.794 - 0:23:26.880

    Oh, a lot of places. We we did a tour.

    0:23:28.160 - 0:23:29.841

    Hi, I'm Liz.

    0:23:29.841 - 0:23:33.772

    I'm from Cuba, but right now I'm in the United States.

    0:23:38.025 - 0:23:40.474

    This is my first time in this country.

    0:23:40.474 - 0:23:43.675

    I didn't come as a tourist or an immigrant.

    0:23:43.675 - 0:23:47.626

    I'm a journalist and my reporting in Cuba led me here.

    0:23:47.626 - 0:23:51.293

    So, tell me one thing that really stood out for you.

    0:23:51.293 - 0:23:58.985

    What's the story you tell at a dinner party about what you saw on the bus when you were in blah blah blah city in

    the United States?

    0:23:58.985 - 0:24:01.665

    What what do you remember seeing that just blew you away?

    0:24:01.665 - 0:24:03.605

    Blew your mind?

    0:24:04.925 - 0:24:08.527

    Yeah, I agree. There's nothing there, is there? Yeah, I can't either think either.

    0:24:10.000 - 0:24:13.837

    Well, I don't know. I really I- well

    0:24:13.837 - 0:24:21.859

    I need to say that I really love the United States.

    0:24:21.859 - 0:24:28.090

    I think like the geography is really, and the nature, really stand out for me.

    0:24:28.090 - 0:24:31.301

    I really love that. I really love the squirrels.

    0:24:31.301 - 0:24:32.592

    The squirrels?

    0:24:32.592 - 0:24:38.430

    We don't have squirrels

    outside the United States-

    Ian (overlapping) Oh, that's classic. "Let me think... Squirrels!"

    0:24:38.430 - 0:24:43.193

    I really think, because that's was really curious for me-

    Ian (overlapping): I love that.

    0:24:43.193 - 0:24:45.032

    -and I spent like a lot of time in Washington DC and they have a lot of parks.

    0:24:45.032 - 0:24:49.318

    So, you can see a lot of squirrels and I was like a fascinated by the squirrels.

    0:24:49.318 - 0:24:52.998

    I was also fascinated by-

    Ian (overlapping): that's the best answer I've ever heard.

    0:24:52.998 - 0:24:56.252

    The squirrels! That's fantastic.

    0:24:56.252 - 0:25:03.037

    The million flavors of ice cream that you have. I really love cheese sticks,

    0:25:03.037 - 0:25:06.824

    but the thing is-

    Justine (overlapping) What's your favorite flavor? What's your favorite?

    0:25:06.824 - 0:25:09.723

    Or did you just have a different flavor favorite every day?

    0:25:09.723 - 0:25:18.710

    I think like salted caramel or pumpkin spice is something that was for the season for the fall...

    0:25:18.710 - 0:25:24.587

    I don't remember the name. They have like a fancy night for normal flavors, but that was good.

    0:25:25.810 - 0:25:27.800

    What did the squirrels taste like?

    0:25:27.800 - 0:25:29.033

    [laughing]

    0:25:29.702 - 0:25:33.783

    But I have to say that the things that stuck more for me

    0:25:33.783 - 0:25:35.975

    and it wasn't in the best way, was

    0:25:35.975 - 0:25:41.135

    when I was in California, in San Francisco.

    0:25:41.135 - 0:25:46.642

    The amount of homeless people in downtown, that was overwhelming.

    0:25:46.642 - 0:25:50.587

    Justine: The tent encampments?

    Ian: Shocking.

    0:25:50.587 - 0:25:54.014

    Liz: the tents, the people like zombies,

    0:25:54.014 - 0:25:59.181

    but there were like hundreds of them in just...

    0:25:59.572 - 0:26:02.741

    because all of them were concentrated in the same place and

    0:26:02.741 - 0:26:05.654

    you have like the fancy towers and hotels and down,

    0:26:05.654 - 0:26:08.527

    you have the people walking around, like it's so many.

    0:26:08.527 - 0:26:13.608

    Yeah, I think you were, cuz San Francisco's just a stones throw across the bay there. Yeah.

    0:26:13.608 - 0:26:18.506

    I think you were in the tenderloin district probably.

    0:26:18.506 - 0:26:20.365

    Liz: Los Angeles too. And I was really...

    0:26:21.196 - 0:26:24.215

    like when people think about the United States they think

    0:26:24.215 - 0:26:31.421

    like, fancy life, cars and cafes/ Supermarkets full of stuff.

    0:26:31.421 - 0:26:33.554

    A lot of consumption.

    0:26:33.554 - 0:26:37.344

    But they never have these pictures in their head.

    Ian: Yeah.

    0:26:37.784 - 0:26:42.804

    There's not a huge drug problem in Cuba is there? Huh?

    0:26:43.293 - 0:26:47.864

    There's not a huge drug drug problem in Cuba, is there?

    It's quite strict on people.

    0:26:47.864 - 0:26:50.000

    It's not. It's not.

    0:26:50.000 - 0:26:54.232

    what I found in Cuba... There's something special about the people.

    0:26:54.232 - 0:26:59.977

    There's something special, the way they bloody move, for God's sake, the way they interact and that casualness,

    0:26:59.977 - 0:27:04.545

    everything's like, you know, I'm saying, oh, you know, we're happy all the time.

    0:27:04.545 - 0:27:09.227

    But my god, there is something special with the people,

    the essence and the spirit.

    0:27:09.227 - 0:27:12.826

    Even when we was filming, that was 30 years ago. There's a mckismo there.

    0:27:12.826 - 0:27:15.076

    There's a dancing. It's physical.

    0:27:15.076 - 0:27:20.226

    It's like, we were interviewing a 90-year-old geezer who had cigar the size of a small town.

    0:27:20.226 - 0:27:26.907

    And we had two women. They was in their like late 20s, 30s.

    0:27:26.907 - 0:27:28.314

    He's all over them!

    0:27:28.314 - 0:27:31.663

    He's hitting on them like he's so smooth, and then they're like,

    0:27:31.663 - 0:27:33.803

    "Look!" he's like, "Come on, baby."

    0:27:33.803 - 0:27:37.309

    You know, his teeth are worse than mine. And he's still-

    0:27:37.309 - 0:27:38.295

    and that's just brilliant.

    0:27:38.295 - 0:27:43.784

    There's something so special in Cuba that I haven't experienced anywhere else.

    0:27:43.784 - 0:27:47.421

    And I think for people like me who've never been to Cuba,

    0:27:47.421 - 0:27:52.163

    my experience of Cuba is the music, the dancing.

    0:28:04.482 - 0:28:06.887

    Cuba. Music.

    0:28:06.887 - 0:28:08.980

    Here in the back streets of Havana.

    0:28:08.980 - 0:28:13.462

    It throbs with a rumba. It was created here by the black kids that live in the area.

    0:28:13.462 - 0:28:17.887

    It's a cross between African rhythms and Spanish melody.

    0:28:17.887 - 0:28:21.874

    And I feel myself just getting [choked up sound]

    0:28:29.403 - 0:28:32.580

    Ian VO: this is the most racially diverse country in the Caribbean.

    0:28:32.580 - 0:28:34.640

    The majority of the population are a

    0:28:34.640 - 0:28:37.873

    mixture of European, African, and indigenous Indian,

    0:28:37.873 - 0:28:42.295

    but the music is distinctively Cuban.

    0:28:45.131 - 0:28:49.217

    Justine: I mean, what Cuba's brought to

    the world culturally,

    0:28:49.217 - 0:28:53.998

    I mean, look at any musician anywhere in the world,

    0:28:53.998 - 0:28:57.214

    you know, there's been an influence coming from Cuba.

    0:28:57.214 - 0:29:01.071

    It's an island the size of a pea.

    Yeah?

    0:29:01.071 - 0:29:04.159

    And the music, like Justine says, just explodes, you know?

    0:29:04.159 - 0:29:05.787

    It's just like, wow.

    0:29:05.787 - 0:29:10.706

    Ian VO: This is what I love about Cuba. It's like everything happens on the streets.

    0:29:10.706 - 0:29:15.388

    Day and night. Everybody's out, you know. Makes a real buzzy atmosphere.

    0:29:15.388 - 0:29:18.307

    Got everything going.

    There's even a bit of music over there.

    0:29:18.307 - 0:29:21.036

    Of course!

    0:29:24.604 - 0:29:29.760

    Cuban music has such an infectious rhythm.

    It even gets me dancing.

    0:29:36.960 - 0:29:42.960

    If I didn't have another train to

    catch, I'd happily stay here for hours.

    0:29:45.600 - 0:29:48.835

    So, tell me that about like when you want to dance,

    0:29:48.835 - 0:29:52.304

    do you just sort of dance with your friends in the living room?

    0:29:52.304 - 0:29:54.473

    Or do you go to a club, or...?

    0:29:54.473 - 0:29:58.147

    I think like the most of the time I just dance in my home with my mom.

    0:29:58.436 - 0:30:00.507

    Wow.

    0:30:02.560 - 0:30:05.874

    You said most of the time you dance with your mom at home?

    0:30:05.874 - 0:30:09.148

    Yeah. And my dad. Yeah. We just dance at home.

    0:30:09.148 - 0:30:12.703

    We play music and we dance.

    0:30:12.703 - 0:30:18.770

    Because we... I'm feeling really old to go out all night long.

    0:30:18.770 - 0:30:20.114

    Think how we feel!

    0:30:20.114 - 0:30:25.179

    I feel old sitting in this bloody studio looking at you. Really annoying.

    0:30:25.961 - 0:30:31.323

    (overlapping) People dance everywhere. There's no- they don't stop.

    0:30:31.323 - 0:30:36.298

    They're just there dancing. It could be an alleyway, could be in your hotel room.

    0:30:36.298 - 0:30:37.976

    God, it's great.

    0:30:37.976 - 0:30:47.101

    And also, they said the Cuban salsa or the dance, it's more free form, less rigid than most other dances similar to that.

    0:30:48.225 - 0:30:50.405

    But that's the Cuban spirit, I

    would say.

    0:30:51.089 - 0:30:54.956

    Yeah. Yeah. It's like just having fun.

    0:30:54.956 - 0:30:57.194

    It's like, and this is something that I really like,

    0:30:57.194 - 0:31:01.711

    because I know people from other cultures and they say "I don't know how to dance"

    0:31:01.711 - 0:31:04.741

    and it's like, what do you mean with that?

    0:31:04.741 - 0:31:08.786

    Like, just dance, just feel the music and let go and they're like

    0:31:08.786 - 0:31:11.941

    "no no no" because they are thinking like, in order to dance

    0:31:11.941 - 0:31:15.048

    you need to take classes to dance

    and in Cuba you just born

    0:31:15.048 - 0:31:19.215

    and people in your family just encourage you just to move your body

    0:31:19.215 - 0:31:20.752

    and that's how you start.

    0:31:20.752 - 0:31:24.976

    I mean there's millions of things that we could learn from Cuba like you said, so much.

    0:31:24.976 - 0:31:28.676

    But the extraordinary thing about Cuba is the recycling.

    0:31:28.676 - 0:31:34.255

    I mean, you recycle more than any other country that I've ever been to, through necessity.

    0:31:34.939 - 0:31:38.687

    Liz VO: In Cuba, we are used to getting by one way or another.

    0:31:38.687 - 0:31:41.147

    We call it resolver.

    0:31:41.147 - 0:31:44.074

    We take junk and make it useful,

    0:31:44.074 - 0:31:49.600

    and we use what we have to survive and improve our lives.

    0:31:51.200 - 0:31:56.358

    We are tough, resilient, and we need to be.

    0:31:56.358 - 0:32:01.158

    Cuz like if it's a train, like you've got a Soviet train engine,

    0:32:01.158 - 0:32:03.587

    then you've got an American 30s

    train,

    0:32:03.587 - 0:32:07.704

    then you got a Romanian passenger thing, all with no new parts.

    0:32:07.704 - 0:32:10.553

    Same with the cars that are just fantastic.

    0:32:10.553 - 0:32:13.809

    No new parts, no nothing, never coming.

    0:32:13.809 - 0:32:18.047

    They make everything and they're like, "Well, we've been keeping this going for 70 years"

    0:32:18.047 - 0:32:21.801

    "We can keep it going for another 70 years." You know, recycling everything.

    0:32:21.801 - 0:32:24.617

    It's- there's no place that does that.

    0:32:24.617 - 0:32:28.187

    Did you ride on the trains when you were there, Ian?

    0:32:28.187 - 0:32:30.625

    Oh, god. Yeah. Did a whole program on trains.

    0:32:31.065 - 0:32:34.912

    Ian VO: As the saying goes, necessity is the mother of invention.

    0:32:34.912 - 0:32:38.366

    And that's certainly true here, where the mechanics somehow

    0:32:38.366 - 0:32:45.306

    keep the old 1950s American trains going, just like Cuba's classic cars are kept on the road, too,

    0:32:45.306 - 0:32:50.946

    despite spare parts being almost

    impossible to get because of the US embargo.

    0:32:55.004 - 0:33:00.446

    Since the revolution, they've kept these locomotives going for 60 years

    0:33:00.446 - 0:33:04.084

    by making all the parts, nothing brand new.

    0:33:04.084 - 0:33:07.548

    And they say that they could probably keep them going for another 60 years

    0:33:07.548 - 0:33:09.174

    and even beyond that.

    0:33:09.174 - 0:33:14.600

    For me, that's like your perfect recycling. Doesn't get better than that.

    0:33:14.600 - 0:33:16.094

    Well, that's the other thing.

    0:33:16.094 - 0:33:19.418

    When you get to Cuba, you just sit on the street and just watch.

    0:33:19.418 - 0:33:25.086

    I mean, it's just those cars are just...

    there's no place like it as well.

    0:33:25.086 - 0:33:26.024

    Amazing.

    0:33:26.024 - 0:33:28.068

    Those old American cars?

    Yes.

    0:33:28.068 - 0:33:31.917

    All them lovely big 40s, 50s, you know.

    0:33:31.917 - 0:33:35.689

    Are people still driving those around?

    Yeah, they're everywhere.

    0:33:35.689 - 0:33:37.575

    I mean-

    Justine: and they people still drive them?

    0:33:37.575 - 0:33:41.809

    They fix them, they break down, they fix them, they drive them.

    Ian: Yeah.

    0:33:41.809 - 0:33:46.614

    There's probably every car's 95% of it is, you know, a made part

    0:33:46.614 - 0:33:50.101

    because it's, you know, but they keep them going.

    0:33:50.101 - 0:33:55.939

    That is one of the identities of Cuba and especially Havana, is just ridiculous.

    0:33:57.357 - 0:34:00.689

    Oh, unbelievable.

    0:34:00.689 - 0:34:02.037

    Look at these things.

    0:34:02.037 - 0:34:04.294

    They're just so stunning. They're so beautiful.

    0:34:04.294 - 0:34:05.859

    They're like pieces of art.

    0:34:05.859 - 0:34:10.720

    And it's not just like one or two. They're just everywhere in this city.

    0:34:11.440 - 0:34:14.467

    And of course, you got to have a ride.

    0:34:14.467 - 0:34:17.537

    You can't come here without having a ride. Gracias, señor!

    0:34:17.537 - 0:34:21.535

    Feel that lever on your butt.

    0:34:22.464 - 0:34:27.747

    Ah, forward, Jeeves!

    0:34:31.462 - 0:34:33.556

    Justine: Liz, let me ask you a question.

    0:34:33.556 - 0:34:39.478

    If you do go there as a tourist, what's the crime situation like in Cuba?

    0:34:39.478 - 0:34:43.352

    Well, Cuba is one of the safest places in the world still.

    0:34:43.352 - 0:34:44.485

    Yeah. No, I agree.

    0:34:44.485 - 0:34:48.502

    I just walk along the streets

    on the night. Of course, I'm a woman.

    0:34:48.502 - 0:34:55.556

    I'm a woman. I'm paying attention who's walking behind me, but I'm doing that.

    0:34:55.556 - 0:34:58.290

    And my my friends, too, so it's it's okay.

    0:34:58.290 - 0:35:02.809

    Yeah. And everyone's on the street at night as well just like just serenading

    0:35:02.809 - 0:35:05.301

    just walking and the street lights

    0:35:05.301 - 0:35:10.298

    there's only about 30% street lighting but you don't feel threatened

    0:35:10.298 - 0:35:13.751

    and when people come in from the big house on Varadero

    0:35:13.751 - 0:35:16.111

    They're like (scaredd voice) "oh we're coming in for the day to Havana"

    0:35:16.111 - 0:35:18.597

    "oh everyone's-" and we're like, "what are you talking about?"

    0:35:18.597 - 0:35:22.378

    "There's not, it's not-" "Oh we've heard

    stories about robberies and-"

    0:35:22.378 - 0:35:26.098

    and we're like-

    Liz (overlapping): of course, just like everywhere...

    0:35:26.098 - 0:35:29.108

    it's the most safest place on Earth. It's just so chill.

    0:35:29.108 - 0:35:31.831

    There, you know, like you say, there's hardly any crime.

    0:35:31.831 - 0:35:33.770

    Yeah yeah yeah.

    0:35:33.770 - 0:35:34.631

    Can you hitchhike?

    0:35:34.631 - 0:35:36.175

    Do people hitchhike in Cuba?

    0:35:36.566 - 0:35:38.039

    Hitchhike. What is that?

    0:35:38.039 - 0:35:40.291

    When you stick your thumb out-

    Ian (overlapping): at the side of the road

    0:35:40.291 - 0:35:42.367

    and anyone can pick you up.

    0:35:42.367 - 0:35:44.348

    Oh, botella.

    0:35:44.348 - 0:35:46.874

    Botella. Is that what it's called?

    0:35:46.874 - 0:35:51.117

    Like you want to get a lift somewhere-

    Liz (overlapping): when they're driving a

    car and they stop

    0:35:51.117 - 0:35:54.789

    and take you for the place that you need to be? Like take a ride?

    0:35:54.789 - 0:35:56.901

    Yeah. You call that bo-?

    0:35:56.901 - 0:35:59.080

    Botella. We call it botella. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

    0:35:59.080 - 0:36:02.055

    But not as a tourist. It's not as easy.

    0:36:02.055 - 0:36:03.046

    Liz: No, the tourists don't do that.

    0:36:03.046 - 0:36:07.131

    But for example- I have a friend from Spain

    0:36:07.131 - 0:36:11.077

    and she loved to do that on the road

    when she needs to go from

    0:36:11.468 - 0:36:12.973

    a province to another one.

    0:36:12.973 - 0:36:15.192

    So she did, she did do that, botella.

    0:36:15.192 - 0:36:16.811

    Justine: She does botella.

    0:36:16.811 - 0:36:19.431

    And what do you do- Can

    you show me on camera-?

    0:36:19.431 - 0:36:20.874

    It's the cheapest way to move around.

    0:36:20.874 - 0:36:23.854

    What do you do with your hand to show that you want a lift?

    0:36:23.854 - 0:36:26.349

    We don't do this (thumbs up). We do this (points).

    0:36:26.349 - 0:36:28.261

    Ah, okay. Like that.

    0:36:28.261 - 0:36:30.267

    Bringing the car down with your

    mind.

    0:36:30.267 - 0:36:31.857

    Like, slow down-

    0:36:31.857 - 0:36:34.557

    But you move your body like it's like-

    0:36:35.926 - 0:36:40.155

    And I have to ask you,

    what are some foods in Cuba

    0:36:40.155 - 0:36:45.112

    that you think are really special, and what's your favorite?

    0:36:45.112 - 0:36:47.157

    And Ian, what's your favorite foods in Cuba?

    0:36:47.157 - 0:36:51.973

    Yeah, I'm going to ask that, too. Avocados. Mango.

    0:36:51.973 - 0:36:53.399

    Avocado- right. Yeah. Yeah.

    0:36:53.399 - 0:36:56.165

    Avocados in Cuba are the best avocados in the world.

    0:36:56.165 - 0:36:59.363

    I don't have to discuss that with anyone. Period.

    0:36:59.363 - 0:37:02.749

    Yeah. Okay. All right. But I do want to do want to say generally

    0:37:02.749 - 0:37:03.911

    Cuban food? Rubbish.

    0:37:03.911 - 0:37:04.916

    Rubbish?!

    0:37:04.916 - 0:37:05.758

    Yeah.

    0:37:05.758 - 0:37:09.468

    Ian (jokingly): What's going on? Where's the spices? Where's all the herbs and stuff?

    0:37:09.468 - 0:37:11.116

    I think in your kitchen,

    0:37:11.360 - 0:37:14.481

    in your homes, you know, you can knock it, when we was with the family,

    0:37:14.481 - 0:37:16.980

    they would knock out a nice little bit and especially do a bit of fishing and stuff and nice.

    0:37:16.980 - 0:37:22.591

    But generally if you got Jamaica, which I think... this is my theory

    0:37:22.591 - 0:37:23.482

    shoot me down.

    0:37:23.781 - 0:37:29.627

    Because of the communist thing, food was seen as a functional thing.

    0:37:29.627 - 0:37:32.171

    So it didn't develop the cuisine as much as...

    0:37:32.171 - 0:37:36.400

    you take Jamaica, some of the- you know, that's a smaller island than bloody Cuba

    0:37:36.400 - 0:37:38.471

    and it's got one of the best cuisines in the world!

    0:37:38.471 - 0:37:39.816

    Herb, spices, everything.

    0:37:39.816 - 0:37:44.392

    It's an explosion of cuisine, whereas Cuba, not quite the same.

    0:37:44.392 - 0:37:46.480

    There you go. I said it!

    0:37:46.480 - 0:37:48.477

    What you got to say to that, Liz?

    0:37:48.477 - 0:37:53.194

    Yeah, and I can I understand where this is coming from.

    0:37:53.194 - 0:37:57.538

    We don't like spices. I like spices, but that's not the normal thing.

    0:37:57.538 - 0:38:01.654

    I have a lot of spices in my home and also a lot of chili,

    0:38:01.654 - 0:38:04.552

    but people in Cuba don't like spicy food.

    0:38:04.552 - 0:38:07.326

    No. No. But they don't, they hate it-

    0:38:07.326 - 0:38:13.670

    They can't tolerate- they can't notice the difference between black pepper and chili.

    0:38:13.670 - 0:38:14.994

    Yeah.

    0:38:14.994 - 0:38:16.103

    For them, it's all the same.

    0:38:16.103 - 0:38:21.381

    And also the hotels and that, the food there's... yeah well, I mean it's probably better now

    0:38:21.381 - 0:38:22.249

    but, ughl.

    0:38:22.249 - 0:38:24.562

    Justine: and it's also a question of access, right, it's like

    0:38:24.562 - 0:38:29.274

    how- you know, it's a small island how, you know... getting stuff -

    0:38:29.274 - 0:38:32.048

    we also have Indo-Chile- it's also about culture

    0:38:32.048 - 0:38:36.606

    Yes, yeah, yeah, it's a culture but I think it's been stamped out by the Soviet

    0:38:36.606 - 0:38:41.848

    that's why I get so mad because it's such a, you know, it's a Caribbean island for god's sake

    0:38:41.848 - 0:38:45.622

    and it's had a Soviet influence. That's just, you know,

    0:38:45.622 - 0:38:49.483

    and the people are the most free [cavalier noises] and then the Soviets turn up

    0:38:49.483 - 0:38:53.227

    "let's turn let's build this really interesting cell block"

    Justine (overlapping): Ian, I have a question-

    0:38:53.227 - 0:38:54.471

    [Dalek voice] Exterminate!

    [Normal voice] What?

    0:38:54.471 - 0:38:57.897

    Did you try avocados?

    0:38:57.897 - 0:39:01.379

    No, you're right, there.

    0:39:01.379 - 0:39:03.003

    You have to, you must.

    (overlapping) Right, you win!

    0:39:03.003 - 0:39:05.841

    You win this time, but I'll get you next time!

    0:39:05.841 - 0:39:07.338

    Well, mango?

    0:39:07.338 - 0:39:09.538

    Mango...

    Justine (overlapping) I love mango

    0:39:09.538 - 0:39:13.271

    Mango chutney, I'm not into mango to be honest, I don't do fruit,

    Liz (overlapping) Not into mango?!

    0:39:13.271 - 0:39:19.478

    I find it quite boring, but I like mango chutney, but it's too stringy and too- I don't do fruit.

    0:39:19.478 - 0:39:24.201

    Fruit, I find boring, but that's my problem and I'm dealing with it.

    0:39:24.201 - 0:39:25.647

    I'm seeing someone about it.

    0:39:25.647 - 0:39:27.064

    We're talking.

    0:39:27.064 - 0:39:29.519

    Next time I see you maybe.

    0:39:29.519 - 0:39:33.200

    I'm going to save a little avenida chile for you when you come to Cuba.

    Ian: Thank you.

    0:39:33.200 - 0:39:39.180

    Yeah. But I can just say Cuba for me and my wife is probably one of the best places I've been.

    0:39:39.180 - 0:39:41.982

    I just... everything about it I love.

    0:39:41.982 - 0:39:49.746

    It's just so so great. It's like, oh man, so chilled.

    0:39:49.746 - 0:39:54.335

    Ah, the music wafting, the little bars [whistling]

    0:39:54.335 - 0:39:55.842

    Justine: Well, what is the alcohol?

    0:39:55.842 - 0:39:58.424

    What's the alcohol most people drink there?

    0:39:58.424 - 0:40:03.620

    Rum! Cuba Libra, the little lie as they call it, because it ain't freedom.

    0:40:03.620 - 0:40:07.673

    Well, most of the people in Cuba just drink, like, straight rum.

    0:40:07.673 - 0:40:13.093

    They don't put anything on it. That's

    exactly the relationship for some people.

    0:40:13.093 - 0:40:18.502

    But yeah. Yeah. But they drink rum. They drink-

    0:40:18.502 - 0:40:22.276

    canchanchara, aguardiente, that's really good.

    0:40:22.276 - 0:40:24.333

    Agua? Agua-?

    0:40:24.333 - 0:40:27.303

    Aguardientea, yeah.

    0:40:27.303 - 0:40:31.847

    Like a-

    Liz: it's a kind of more... less crafted rum.

    0:40:31.847 - 0:40:34.490

    I love it! It's still rum.

    0:40:35.223 - 0:40:39.280

    Even the water tastes like rum.

    0:40:43.600 - 0:40:46.185

    At the end of the day, everyone comes

    down here

    0:40:46.185 - 0:40:49.479

    and exchanges opinions about the revolution to each other.

    0:40:49.479 - 0:40:52.118

    Drink loads of rum, waiting for tomorrow.

    0:40:52.118 - 0:40:54.015

    None will make it tomorrow.

    0:41:04.232 - 0:41:09.373

    Ian VO: As the evening wears on, things start to

    get a little bit out of control.

    0:41:11.231 - 0:41:21.908

    [unintelligible, attempting to sing in Spanish]

    0:41:23.961 - 0:41:25.064

    [laughing at Ian in Spanish]

    0:41:29.094 - 0:41:30.543

    I've lost the pick.

    0:41:32.010 - 0:41:34.682

    They've put a hole in the guitar.

    What silly idea was that?

    0:41:34.682 - 0:41:40.046

    It's like, for a big bottle, even a good rum, it's like about $3.

    0:41:40.046 - 0:41:45.709

    It's, for us, being us traveling there, so cheap. It's ridiculous. You can't not drink it.

    0:41:45.709 - 0:41:49.733

    Justine: Is there a lot- Do people drink a lot of alcohol?

    0:41:49.733 - 0:41:54.346

    I mean, I don't know. Like, is alcohol use a problem?

    0:41:54.346 - 0:41:55.717

    No.

    0:41:55.717 - 0:42:00.640

    No. They drink a lot of it, but not in a state where... I haven't seen it as much.

    0:42:00.640 - 0:42:04.083

    Well, they're burning- everyone's burning it off all the time, right, with the dancing.

    0:42:04.083 - 0:42:05.212

    Yeah, exactly.

    0:42:05.212 - 0:42:06.380

    Yeah.

    0:42:07.113 - 0:42:14.952

    Liz, do you have any questions for Ian, having seen his show or just anything at all about him?

    0:42:14.952 - 0:42:17.523

    He's rather unusual.

    0:42:17.523 - 0:42:20.796

    Not quite as interesting as a squirrel, but-

    0:42:20.796 - 0:42:23.859

    Nothing- You can't

    compete with the American squirrels.

    0:42:23.859 - 0:42:25.960

    You just can't compete-

    Liz (overlapping) Yeah, exactly.

    0:42:25.960 - 0:42:30.839

    They're unique, yeah. They're one of the best parts of the country. Yeah.

    0:42:30.839 - 0:42:32.014

    Tell me about it.

    0:42:32.014 - 0:42:35.255

    I don't know. I can- I have, like, so many questions, like,

    0:42:35.255 - 0:42:44.219

    if you could change one thing about Cuba, what would it be? Like we can just say, the food is already said, so, done.

    0:42:44.219 - 0:42:45.603

    Another one?

    0:42:45.603 - 0:42:51.151

    I'm not sure about change, but what I would do is because

    0:42:51.151 - 0:42:55.501

    obviously when the borders come down, which is, you know, just a matter of time

    0:42:55.501 - 0:43:02.865

    because what threat is Cuba to anybody rather than, you know, they dance you off the dance floor?

    0:43:02.865 - 0:43:05.854

    That's the only threat I can see and that's quite a big threat.

    0:43:05.854 - 0:43:07.455

    I feel threatened by that.

    0:43:08.237 - 0:43:14.143

    But it's the fact that when a country, it might be America, could be China,

    0:43:14.143 - 0:43:19.579

    cuz they're just waiting to get

    into Cuba, to not destroy it,

    0:43:19.579 - 0:43:23.245

    but just to suck it dry of all its beautifulness.

    0:43:23.245 - 0:43:27.841

    So you need a strong government or a strong people to resist that

    0:43:27.841 - 0:43:33.190

    and do it gradually and keep control of it somehow

    0:43:33.190 - 0:43:38.558

    so it doesn't, cuz, you know, big companies don't care whether we live or die

    0:43:38.558 - 0:43:40.582

    as long as they make money.

    0:43:40.582 - 0:43:45.993

    So my worst fear is the fact that big companies will come in and swell it up

    0:43:45.993 - 0:43:51.017

    and, you know, dismantle it in a way or turn it into like a Disneyland

    0:43:51.017 - 0:44:01.769

    in a way, absurdly, ironically, turn it

    back into why Fidel and Che Guevara started the revolution.

    0:44:01.769 - 0:44:08.561

    You know, it's, there's a fear that it might go back to being a western, you know, play place.

    0:44:08.561 - 0:44:12.621

    So that would- that's my dream and that's my hope for Cuba.

    0:44:12.621 - 0:44:14.147

    Oh me too.

    0:44:14.147 - 0:44:16.172

    Yeah, of course. Of course.

    0:44:16.172 - 0:44:19.402

    That that's so beautifully put.

    0:44:19.402 - 0:44:24.593

    Okay, Liz, let us ask you, almost the final question, is what would you do

    0:44:24.593 - 0:44:28.072

    if you could change one thing in Cuba?

    0:44:28.072 - 0:44:32.521

    Well, I would say one thing that I never change- the people.

    0:44:32.521 - 0:44:37.988

    The way that we are, the way that we love, the way that we dance,

    0:44:38.428 - 0:44:45.558

    the way that we embrace others, cultures, or-

    Ian (overlapping): do you ever see that could ever change?

    0:44:45.558 - 0:44:51.311

    If Cuba changed really quickly?

    I think that would be the one thing that you couldn't really change

    0:44:51.849 - 0:44:53.871

    in the Cuban soul.

    0:44:53.871 - 0:44:56.626

    Well, yeah, but I don't know.

    0:44:56.626 - 0:44:58.301

    Maybe it's under threat.

    0:44:58.301 - 0:45:01.063

    Yes, because Yeah. Yeah.

    0:45:01.063 - 0:45:09.351

    Like the way that people think and capitalists, the way that capitalism is installed in the people's brains right now

    0:45:09.351 - 0:45:10.255

    is not a good one.

    0:45:10.255 - 0:45:15.981

    Yeah. And that's thanks internet and access to internet.

    0:45:15.981 - 0:45:18.943

    Yeah.

    People consume a lot of things that are garbage.

    0:45:18.943 - 0:45:23.776

    Absolutely.

    And I think that we are losing our critical point of view.

    0:45:23.776 - 0:45:27.524

    We are not thinking or watching something critically.

    0:45:27.524 - 0:45:33.094

    We are just absorbing whatever information they got to us.

    0:45:33.094 - 0:45:35.796

    And this is not just a Cuban problem. It's the world's problem.

    0:45:35.796 - 0:45:40.027

    Yeah. It's overload of information which is quite clever in a way

    0:45:40.027 - 0:45:46.422

    instead of like hiding, it's a difference from George Orwell and Aldous Huxley.

    0:45:46.422 - 0:45:52.398

    Orwell's like the nanny state where Huxley is... if you just

    0:45:52.398 - 0:45:56.494

    flood everyone with information everyone's brain just becomes a bit mushy

    0:45:56.494 - 0:46:00.389

    because you can't absorb it,

    like you said, Liz,

    0:46:00.389 - 0:46:04.647

    you can't make sort of decisions or rational things because you're just getting bombarded with it.

    0:46:05.820 - 0:46:13.882

    Yeah. I'm still trying to get used to this phrase, "content consumption."

    0:46:13.882 - 0:46:17.576

    I wondered where you was going with that, it sounded rude. Yeah.

    0:46:17.576 - 0:46:19.167

    No, but that you know, when you make, you know,

    0:46:19.167 - 0:46:23.036

    it used to be you'd make a film or you'd put on a play, you know

    0:46:23.036 - 0:46:27.352

    you'd make a film and... but now

    it's "content" and people consume it

    0:46:27.352 - 0:46:33.184

    and it's sort of like bland food like the food you were describing.

    0:46:33.184 - 0:46:37.335

    It's just... it just kind of weighs your brain down, weighs your body down.

    0:46:37.335 - 0:46:43.452

    It's kind of a lot of the same. Your brain gets into this groove and it just stays in this rut

    0:46:43.452 - 0:46:48.944

    and it's like you're just looking at stuff on social and it's just like this groove and you're

    0:46:48.944 - 0:46:56.813

    you just sort of feel like your human brain processing system is just going stupid stupider stupidest

    stupid stupid-

    0:46:56.813 - 0:46:58.760

    That's almost like the plan, in a way.

    0:46:58.760 - 0:47:04.579

    If, you know, there's nothing better than

    dumb down people, so you can rule them, is there?

    0:47:04.579 - 0:47:10.554

    If everyone's sort of stuck to the phone and which everyone is, like...sorry I've got a call-

    0:47:10.554 - 0:47:12.964

    -like zombies then, and then-

    0:47:12.964 - 0:47:17.047

    that's the perfect thing.

    Right, but let's just say we're all hypocrites, right?

    0:47:17.047 - 0:47:22.453

    Because yeah we're making a bloody thing for the phone

    Ian: Oh yeah.

    0:47:22.453 - 0:47:25.672

    Most people are listening to this or watching it on their phone so we're all-

    0:47:25.672 - 0:47:27.947

    It's like slow food.

    0:47:27.947 - 0:47:30.692

    I really love slow food and I want it now.

    0:47:30.692 - 0:47:35.385

    You know, Bobby Chinn, the

    the one- Bobby Chinn, who we spoke with, you know, said that.

    0:47:35.385 - 0:47:40.862

    I mean, we're all kind of got our feet in so many different places,

    0:47:40.862 - 0:47:44.952

    our values, we say, "Oh, these are my values."

    0:47:44.952 - 0:47:49.547

    But then you really look at how we're

    living and are we really living in alignment with our values?

    0:47:49.547 - 0:47:51.559

    It's hard to in the modern world.

    0:47:51.559 - 0:47:58.485

    Yeah, but also it's not all negative like

    the phone or the internet or this what we're doing, you know?

    0:47:58.485 - 0:48:02.542

    It's not one or the other-

    Ian (overlapping) Sometimes it can be for good!

    0:48:02.542 - 0:48:04.721

    Well, everything is a gray area, isn't it?

    0:48:04.721 - 0:48:06.563

    Except for greedy motherfuckers.

    0:48:06.563 - 0:48:08.440

    They're just greedy motherfuckers.

    0:48:08.440 - 0:48:10.735

    There's one behind you now.

    [Justine gasps hyperbolically]

    0:48:11.175 - 0:48:12.909

    Oh, no. They gone.

    0:48:13.447 - 0:48:16.384

    Weird. Sorry about that, Liz.

    0:48:16.384 - 0:48:18.513

    I didn't realize you was there. We're just off on one.

    0:48:18.513 - 0:48:21.657

    That's what, that's what the Western world's like now.

    0:48:21.657 - 0:48:25.302

    That's what happens when you get old.

    0:48:25.840 - 0:48:29.182

    Yeah. It'll be you soon, Liz.

    You be careful out there.

    0:48:29.182 - 0:48:36.369

    Okay, well, listen, Liz, it's my dream to

    hang out with you and go dancing with you in Cuba.

    0:48:36.369 - 0:48:39.201

    I'm seriously wanting to make that happen.

    0:48:39.201 - 0:48:43.089

    I can't wait. Oh, well, me and wife

    just love it so much.

    0:48:43.089 - 0:48:45.753

    We'd be back in Cuba, a drop of a hat,

    0:48:45.753 - 0:48:48.438

    and we come and dance with

    your mom and dad.

    0:48:48.438 - 0:48:52.259

    Yeah. At my home. Oh, my grandma's home.

    (overlapping) Oh, yeah.

    0:48:52.259 - 0:48:56.002

    Yeah, we need to do that.

    (overlapping) I'm too old for anything else.

    0:48:56.002 - 0:49:00.393

    Like you, Cuba is one of my favorite

    places in the world as well.

    0:49:00.393 - 0:49:05.732

    It's so brilliant. It's so unique.

    There's no place on earth like it.

    0:49:05.732 - 0:49:11.899

    Japan I compare it with, with the

    uniqueness and the sort of the isolation.

    0:49:11.899 - 0:49:15.668

    Everything's different. Everything's,

    you know, nothing's homogenized there.

    0:49:15.668 - 0:49:21.295

    It's all your own like vitality, music, life, and then

    0:49:21.295 - 0:49:27.943

    thrown in a bit of sort of weird Soviet communism

    in a Caribbean island that's just so full of life.

    0:49:27.943 - 0:49:34.111

    The buildings are incredible. And then there's

    Soviet blocks and it's like, what's going on?

    0:49:34.111 - 0:49:36.289

    It's just amazing.

    0:49:36.289 - 0:49:39.955

    Well, now I want to go to Japan.

    0:49:39.955 - 0:49:46.683

    Who doesn't? Oh man. Yeah. Yeah, you'd love it there.

    0:49:46.683 - 0:49:49.821

    God, then they'd love you as well. Yeah, brilliant.

    0:49:49.821 - 0:49:53.960

    Liz, if you, if you find yourself in the States again,

    0:49:53.960 - 0:50:01.134

    I would love to meet you and it's just been

    so lovely spending this time with you.

    0:50:01.134 - 0:50:03.931

    Aw, thank you.

    And, you know, I sort of feel a little bit like

    0:50:03.931 - 0:50:06.152

    I got to travel to Cuba today. I don't know.

    0:50:06.152 - 0:50:09.764

    I feel like- do you feel like a

    conversation can do that, Liz?

    0:50:09.764 - 0:50:11.915

    Yeah, for sure.

    0:50:11.915 - 0:50:16.608

    I don't know about a conversation, but

    you can feel the connection with people even online.

    0:50:16.608 - 0:50:20.671

    Yeah, I like "EVEN... online."

    0:50:20.671 - 0:50:24.987

    Liz, absolute pleasure.

    Thank you so much, darling. You're a star.

    0:50:24.987 - 0:50:26.987

    You, too!

    0:50:27.916 - 0:50:30.310

    Besos, abrazos!

    Ciao!

    [Ian making sounds]

    0:50:30.359 - 0:50:31.760

    Gracias!

    [Ian making more sounds]

    0:50:33.617 - 0:50:35.617

    Bye!

    It's this chair!

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