Cuba
Episode 4
December 18, 2025
In Episode 4, Ian and Justine travel to Cuba—a country now nearly impossible for U.S. citizens to visit due to strict travel restrictions. Despite the barriers, Our Looney Planet takes you there. Join Ian and Justine for a lively, intimate conversation with Cuban journalist Liz Oliva Fernández, whose stories and documentary footage lead us far off the beaten path and deep into one of the world’s most authentic, resilient, and remarkably preserved cultures.
Together, Liz, Ian, and Justine unpack what Cuba is really like today in a conversation that swings effortlessly from the serious to the giggle-inducing, enriched by striking archival footage from Ian’s Globe Trekker Cuba episode, filmed back in 1995.
And if Cuba ever needs a British ambassador, Ian Wright is clearly ready for the post. Barely able to stay seated, his enthusiasm for the island is utterly unbridled. Having traveled to Cuba many times for both work and pleasure, Ian joins Liz in transporting us from Cuba’s extraordinary history straight into its vibrant, complicated present.
Chapters
00:00 Ian loves Cuba
00:35 Meet Liz Oliva Fernandez
10:39 Fidel Castro and Cuba
11:53 Just what the dolphin ordered
13:39 “Che” lives
16:54 Tourism in Cuba
17:34 Swamped with crap
21:21 Tough travels
22:57 A Cuban’s first impression of the USA
26:48 Salsa, Cha-cha-chá, Mambo, the Rumba
31:19 The ingenuity of Cuban recycling
33:14 Cuba’s Classic Cars
34:32 Crime or No Crime, that is the question
35:30 Hitchhiking in Cuba
36:34 Ian’s hot take on Cuban food
39:52 Even the water tastes like rum
42:04 Hopes for Cuba
48:26 Like Japan
Listen on your favorite platform
Episode Cast & Crew
Hosts: Ian Wright and Justine Shapiro
Guest: Liz Oliva Fernández
Producer: Ken Schneider
Editor: Thomas Lorne
Sound Mix: Dan Olmsted
Kuku Studios, Berkeley, California USA
Haverhill Music Hub, Haverhill UK
News footage courtesy of Belly of the Beast
Major Funding
Season 1 was made possible thanks to a grant from The Khosravi Family Trust.
Our Loonies
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Joseph Tindle
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Rajeev
Mike Matera
John Miles
Nikhil Patel
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Joe Guzman
Heather Munro
Robert Paul
Ignacio Gil
Abigail
Richard Logan
Era Orozco
James Wheaton
Melanie Rudzinski
Cliff Matheson
José Pizarro-Otero
Rob Furber
Season 1 Credits
With gratitude to those from Pilot Films and Television, UK who helped create Our Looney Planet
Ian Cross, founder of Pilot Productions and creator of the Lonely Planet / Globe Trekker TV series.
Deb Marrow Cox
Anne Bogart
Sarah Blinco
Sanyukta Shrestha
Helen Roberts
Richard Howard
Chris Hampson
Amanda Kramer
Ian Ritchie
Neville Farmer
Megan McCormick
Emma Cahusac
Angela Gourley
Rachael Heaton-Armstrong
Andy Margetson
Lucy Cooke
Bini Adams
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Saami Sabiti
Nick Robbins
Nigel Kinnings
Lynn Mitchell
Georgie Burrell
Neil Harvey
Simon Niblett
Ian sciacaluga
Rik Lander
Peter Boyd Maclean
Tim Knight
With gratitude
Rachel Mercy Simpson, Berkeley Community College
Interns: Seungjun Kim, Martin Mercy, Matan Ziv, Manny Cox
Betsy Rate, UC Berkeley School of Journalism
Interns: Negar Ajayebi, Alicia Chang, Zane Karram and Fuwad Ahamad
Rob Burchell, The Hall Media Facilities, UK
Honorbarre.com
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y Carlos Bolado
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Claudia Erzinger
With Gratitude To Those We’ve Lost
Jonathan Leffman, Sound Recordist
Stephen Luscombe, Composer
Paul Pierre Standifer, Fixer/Producer
Leslie Weiner, Producer
Roger Whitby, Sound Recordist
Nick Corey Wright, Director
Anthony Bourdain
For MATLANA
Executive Producer: Justine Shapiro
Series Producer: Liliana Cortés
Producer & Editor: Gregory Scharpen
Producer & Editor: Thomas Lorne
Producer: Stephen Lennhoff
Title Animation - Zazie Capobianco, Aerial Contrivance Workshop
Media Management & Website: Sage Brucia
Bookkeeper: Craig Paull
Fundraising Strategist: Bri Castellini
Legal: Richard J. Lee Law Group and Madison Karsenty, DCP Law
Produced by MATLANA a 501(c)3 organization
MATLANA Board Members
Deirdre English
Jocelyn Leroux
Jena Resner
Justine Shapiro
-
0:00:00.160 - 0:00:03.120
What threat is Cuba to anybody
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rather than, you know, they
dance you off the dance floor?
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That's the only threat I can see
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and that's quite a big threat.
0:00:09.520 - 0:00:13.880
I feel threatened by that.
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VO: Hi, I'm Ian. I'm Justine.
0:00:19.760 - 0:00:26.960
Back in the '90s, we hosted Lonely Planet,
also known as Globe Trekker or Pilot Guides.
0:00:26.960 - 0:00:33.760
Now, we're back. Welcome to our
Looney Planet with Ian and Justine.
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Yeah. Woohoo.
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Good morning. Good morning, Justine. My god.
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God, that was loud. Good morning. Yes. Well, it's
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I'm feeling fragile right now.
I- What the-
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It's dark where you are. What's going on? Yeah,
0:00:47.680 - 0:00:54.400
It's 5 in the morning where I am in Berkeley,
California. What time is it there in the UK?
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Half 1 in the afternoon.
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Yeah, it's 5.
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Feel bad now, geez-
5:30 in the morning. Oh, wow.
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Ian, do you know why we're doing this
recording at 5:30 in the morning, my time,
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when it's dark outside?
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Yes, because we've got a a guest
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all the way from Cuba, which is fantastic.
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Yeah, but we could do it when it
was 8:00 in the morning, my time,
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12:00 her time, and 5 hours behind the UK.
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Why else am I up at 5:30 in the morning?
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Can anyone out there guess?
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Okay. It could be a contest.
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Really? There's two reasons, is there?
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Well, you tell me.
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Well, that's what it seems like. So, one reason,
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obviously, you're doing this
podcast with Liz from Cuba,
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and the other reason is......
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that the connectivity issues in
Cuba with the Wi-Fi work best.
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Don't give it away. Don't give it away.
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But it's but I think it's part
of the story because I'm finding
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that in some places where we want
to talk to people over, you know,
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video conference... it's quite difficult.
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the connection is really not taken for granted.
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Yeah. When we was talking to Bobby Chinn
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in Egypt
Yeah
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and the connection with shite,
I'm like wait till you talk to someone in Cuba
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if you think Egypt was bad
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cuz when I was there I think I was
only there like eight years ago. Yeah.
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And the connection was just appalling.
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When were you last in Cuba?
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About 8 years ago.
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But when did you shoot the
show in Cuba? That was 95.
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That's that's that's when
Fidel Castro was still in
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charge. [overlapping] Only about 25-30 years ago.
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[Ian VO] The biggest island in the Caribbean.
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All the other islands can fit into it.
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And hopefully in about 10 minutes,
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I'm going to land right on top of it.
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Cuba! Woo!
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[indistinct Ian screams of joy]
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But I've been back cuz I love it so much.
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I've been back quite a bit and
we've friends there and stuff.
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Oh my gosh. Lucky you. Oh, I'm so jealous.
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Ian: Can I just say-
Justine: I've never been.
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I did an amazing program called Tough Trains
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probably about 10 years ago.
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Ian, I had no idea. I thought the
one and only time you'd been to Cuba
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was in 1995 when you filmed
the Globe Trekker show there.
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No. No.
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Wow-
Can't get enough of it.
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You must be so excited to meet our guest.
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Yeah. Oh, yeah.
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So, welcome Liz!
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Welcome, Liz! Hi there!
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Nice to see you.
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Hi, guys. It's a pleasure for me
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being with you guys today.
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Oh, the pleasure is all ours.
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Thank you so much for starting
your day with us today.
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I have so many questions for you
because I don't know anything about you
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but can you kind of just give me the basics?
Like, okay, I'll tell you mine. I'm 62.
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I have a younger sister. My mom
and dad divorced when I was six.
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They're both still alive in their late
80s. And I was born in South Africa,
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grew up in the States, and made
documentary films and hosted this show.
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And I have a son who's 24
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and not interested in dating. You?
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Oh my god, that was a lot.
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[Ian laughing] You, now!
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That's that's my turn. Okay. I'm 31 years old.
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I'm an Afro Cuban journalist.
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I'm also an activist.
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I'm a single daughter. I'm married.
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I love Cuba and I've been in Cuba my entire life.
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I'm really anxious to see like the
most countries that I can, so far.
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Yeah.
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But until now, Cuba still is my favorite place.
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Have you traveled a lot?
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Because we wanted to talk to you
a couple of months ago and then
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well you... I think you went
to Guinea Basau? Is that right?
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Exactly.
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In West Africa?
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Yeah.
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What were you going there for? Wow.
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Well, I was there working because
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as I said at the beginning, I work
for independent US media outlet
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called Belly of the Beast. So, I-
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Belly of the Beast?
0:05:06.240 - 0:05:10.480
Belly of the Beast. Check it
out. Belly of the Beast Cuba.
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And you're a journalist for them. And
are they like an online and print?
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or who does print anymore?
Are they online news source?
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Well, yeah, but also we do documentaries.
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That's the main thing about Belly of the Beast.
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We do documentaries about the reality in Cuba,
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about Cuba, about the relations
between the United States and Cuba.
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I'm intrigued about... because obviously
when I was there 30 years ago and then
0:05:36.640 - 0:05:41.200
10 years ago, that that there
wasn't the freedom there.
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So when you're here, which is amazing,
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to tell me that you're doing
documentaries about life in Cuba,
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you know, via a sort of American outlet, that to
me is like, wow, I didn't think that was possible.
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So in my opinion, as a journalist,
that's something like censorship
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is something that you have to face in
in your life in one way or another one,
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but so far uh we haven't
faced that yet. Of course.
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Sometimes you are getting sassy
with the news and you're trying to-
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Wait, did you say you're getting sassy?
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Yeah. Well, I don't know if that's-
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Oh, I Iike that! Getting sassy with the
news. I love that expression, it's great!
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That says so much.
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Liz, what, just quickly, sorry.
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Give us an outline of what
kind of programs you're making
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and so then we get an idea.
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Or is it top secret, or is it just general,
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or... what can you sort of do and
not do and how political can you get?
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Yeah. And what are some of the favorite
stories you've you've reported?
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Well, my favorite stories to report is about the
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given people when we tell
stories about... Ernesto.
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I love that kind of stories.
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[speaking Spanish]
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[Liz VO]
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This is where Ernesto goes to get his prosthetics
0:07:04.960 - 0:07:06.400
free of charge
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but Ernesto can't get the
specialized prosthetics he needs
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because it's illegal for Cuba to buy them.
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Liz, we tried to find a time to talk to you a
couple times. Once you were in Guinea, Basau
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and then once your Abuelita,
your grandmother, got sick.
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So first of all how is she doing now
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Well, thank you.
and how was the healthcare system working for her?
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Oh that was lovely that you remember that.
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Well my grandma is doing great right now.
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Yay!
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Well, how old is your grandmother? And you were
talking about growing up in Cuba. What years-
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you said you're 31. I can't do the math.
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What years were you growing up in Cuba?
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Well, my grandma is 89.
Okay.
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I just grew up in the 90s, during the 90s.
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And I think that it was really different from the
Cuba that the kids are growing up in right now.
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We just have like a simple life.
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We don't have a lot of
0:08:12.080 - 0:08:14.080
things that people
0:08:14.080 - 0:08:17.760
now need, to feel like,
okay, this is a decent life.
0:08:17.760 - 0:08:18.928
But we were happy.
0:08:18.928 - 0:08:20.361
Yeah.
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And could your grandmother get
the medications that she needed?
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Did you face- did you encounter,
0:08:27.896 - 0:08:32.873
you know, the obstacles or did things go well for you
0:08:32.873 - 0:08:34.418
with the health system there?
0:08:34.418 - 0:08:35.405
Yeah.
0:08:35.405 - 0:08:37.631
We are really lucky because my mom is a doctor
0:08:37.631 - 0:08:43.586
so we don't have to take my
grandma to the primary care system
0:08:43.586 - 0:08:47.825
to take care of them because we can- my mom can take care of them at
home.
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That's a privilege.
0:08:50.021 - 0:08:55.837
So if she needs an IV, my mom's going to give her an IV because we
have IVs at home.
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But it's possible that we take her to the policlínico
0:08:59.294 - 0:09:07.108
It's a kind of urgent care system and this is in the neighborhoods.
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Cuba has a really great
infrastructure.
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You have urgent care locations throughout Cuba in lots of different
neighborhoods.
0:09:16.379 - 0:09:22.995
Yeah. Well, we have consultorio that is exactly in your block.
0:09:22.995 - 0:09:26.819
It's one doctor for around... Yeah, a small clinic.
0:09:26.819 - 0:09:31.187
The clinic is downstairs, and upstairs is the house of the doctor.
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So you have the same doctor almost for your entire life.
0:09:34.432 - 0:09:37.718
The same doctor that your mom had when she was pregnant with you.
0:09:37.718 - 0:09:41.421
Then you were born and he was also
your doctor
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and he's living in the same neighborhood that you do.
0:09:44.752 - 0:09:47.135
So he's seeing you growing up.
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The doctor is following you your entire life.
0:09:50.817 - 0:09:53.466
In Cuba, you don't have to go far to see a doctor.
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[Speaking Spanish]
0:09:58.159 - 0:10:02.589
That's your médico de familia, like a family doctor.
0:10:02.589 - 0:10:09.293
So, are you able to get them, even though your mother is a doctor and she's got access,
0:10:09.293 - 0:10:12.751
is she able to get the medications that your grandmother needs?
0:10:13.289 - 0:10:18.746
Well, the health care system
has been really impacted by the US sanctions on Cuba.
0:10:18.746 - 0:10:20.911
So, we don't have lab tests.
0:10:21.595 - 0:10:24.664
And the medications that my that my grandma needs,
0:10:24.664 - 0:10:29.594
I have it, because I have friends, I have family who live outside of Cuba.
0:10:29.594 - 0:10:36.287
So, we say, "Okay, could you send me these medications and these
medications because I need it for my grandma."
0:10:36.287 - 0:10:39.695
But that's not reality for most of the people.
0:10:39.695 - 0:10:46.311
So if you had access, then your health system
0:10:46.311 - 0:10:48.668
would probably be one of the best
in the world I would imagine.
0:10:48.668 - 0:10:49.646
Yeah.
0:10:49.646 - 0:10:53.470
Because the training and everything... is it also, it's free
education
0:10:53.470 - 0:11:00.000
you've got access to. As well, educational cuz that was one of Fidel's big things wasn't it?
0:11:00.000 - 0:11:03.299
When he came in, it was like, access for the people.
0:11:03.299 - 0:11:05.905
And for me,
0:11:05.905 - 0:11:10.829
I think as a politician or a person
in charge of the country,
0:11:10.829 - 0:11:15.235
love him or hate him, I think he actually, probably,
0:11:15.235 - 0:11:23.047
95% of what he said
he'd do, he actually did, I think, for Cuba, which is extraordinarily rare for any leader
0:11:23.047 - 0:11:27.463
of a country, because before that, in my thinking, it was America's toilet.
0:11:27.463 - 0:11:30.616
and they were just using
it as a thing. And of course,
0:11:30.616 - 0:11:33.192
no Cuban was getting anything.
0:11:33.192 - 0:11:37.119
And then you had like 52 people come
over on a boat.
0:11:37.119 - 0:11:41.800
19 of them survived and went into the mountains.
0:11:41.800 - 0:11:48.177
3 years later, they've taken over
Cuba. That is just an off the scale story.
0:11:48.177 - 0:11:53.609
I mean, amazing. Amazing. And he promised so much and
delivered so much.
0:11:53.609 - 0:11:59.555
So, Liz, there's this crazy moment in the show that Ian did in Cuba
30 years ago.
0:11:59.555 - 0:12:01.315
I watched the video.
0:12:01.315 - 0:12:05.861
So Liz, that dolphin park, Ian says that it was turned into a
0:12:05.861 - 0:12:09.496
therapeutic center by Fidel Castro.
0:12:09.496 - 0:12:13.187
It was when I was there, that's what it was. Yeah.
0:12:13.187 - 0:12:19.732
So Fidel's, that was, I guess that was a big part of what Cuba was all about was
0:12:19.732 - 0:12:23.173
was improving healthcare for people and for like
0:12:23.173 - 0:12:27.384
troubled kids or something or whatever to, you know, relax and
0:12:27.384 - 0:12:30.679
be in the pools and the dolphins would help them out and stuff like that.
0:12:30.679 - 0:12:33.584
Except for me.
0:12:33.584 - 0:12:36.194
This is a dolphin pool just outside Hogan where sick kids
0:12:36.194 - 0:12:38.622
can come and splash around with the
dolphins.
0:12:38.622 - 0:12:45.596
Feel the vibe, and I'm certainly feeling.
0:12:48.138 - 0:12:52.783
The mad thing is, like everyone
says, like the dolphins are so spiritual. Yeah.
0:12:52.783 - 0:12:55.050
And they can, like, see into your soul.
0:12:55.050 - 0:12:57.830
The dolphin knows whether you're a bad person.
0:12:57.830 - 0:12:59.207
They hated me!
0:13:00.576 - 0:13:02.899
This one doesn't like me much.
0:13:02.899 - 0:13:04.734
Ian VO: I'd only been in there for 5 minutes! Do you see?
0:13:04.734 - 0:13:07.579
Then they're trying to get me arm! They right had the measure of me.
0:13:07.579 - 0:13:10.484
Dolphins are one of nature's most caring animals
0:13:10.484 - 0:13:15.018
and they quickly form a bond between themselves and humans.
0:13:18.480 - 0:13:20.950
Well, at least they do in most cases.
0:13:22.368 - 0:13:27.078
I think what happened as I was enjoying myself, I went down underwater
0:13:27.078 - 0:13:30.000
I was kicking out with my legs,
booted one in the stomach,
0:13:30.000 - 0:13:34.025
one of the dolphins, and from then on, they just went mental at me.
0:13:35.541 - 0:13:38.797
So... bloody things. Don't you trust them dolphins.
0:13:39.775 - 0:13:41.772
Yeah, Liz.
0:13:41.772 - 0:13:44.663
So in the Globe Trekker
episode that Ian did,
0:13:44.663 - 0:13:52.146
he goes to the university there and this was, what, Ian you did that show in Cuba 30 years ago, right?
0:13:52.782 - 0:13:57.199
The most important battle to secure victory for the revolution
0:13:57.199 - 0:13:58.460
was fought here in Santa Clara.
0:13:58.460 - 0:14:00.771
It was led by Che Guevara
0:14:00.771 - 0:14:02.956
and he actually drove this bulldozer
0:14:02.956 - 0:14:06.677
into those trains that were full of arms for the government soldiers.
0:14:06.677 - 0:14:10.560
Three days later they took over the whole of the country.
0:14:13.280 - 0:14:16.352
Che Guevara is so popular in Santa Clara that
0:14:16.352 - 0:14:19.209
they've even named a university after him.
0:14:19.209 - 0:14:22.168
Everyone must take a course in Che studies.
0:14:22.168 - 0:14:25.989
This is Che University and I swear everybody loves him here.
0:14:25.989 - 0:14:29.291
What happened after the
battle of Santa Clara? He came here.
0:14:29.291 - 0:14:31.256
He made a big speech on education,
0:14:31.256 - 0:14:35.805
changing the system and making it available for everyone.
0:14:56.800 - 0:14:59.727
Did Che Guevara wear a beret?
Yeah.
0:14:59.727 - 0:15:04.142
Did he wear a t-shirt with Che Guevara on?
No. No. No.
0:15:06.720 - 0:15:09.165
Is that still happening, Liz?
0:15:09.165 - 0:15:12.458
Is there still an interest in Che Guevara?
0:15:12.458 - 0:15:18.325
And are students political or what's on their t-shirts now?
0:15:18.325 - 0:15:23.937
I think that the the vibe is completely different, maybe 30 years
ago
0:15:23.937 - 0:15:30.650
that like people was really involved with the process and there's a lot of enthusiasm about
0:15:30.650 - 0:15:40.168
the revolution itself and the idea of it became in a better country
and a country with more social justice.
0:15:40.168 - 0:15:42.759
But I think like my generation and
0:15:42.759 - 0:15:48.240
the generations that came after me
0:15:48.240 - 0:15:52.312
they don't have this concept about a better world is possible
0:15:52.312 - 0:15:56.832
because they just survived a crisis after a crisis.
0:15:56.832 - 0:16:03.071
When I was there, I would say it was not
half and half, more younger people,
0:16:03.071 - 0:16:07.408
especially setting up their own businesses and things like
that, wanting to grow more
0:16:07.408 - 0:16:12.510
rather than, you know, have about four jobs just to try and make ends
meet.
0:16:12.510 - 0:16:16.883
How's the entrepreneurial situation in Cuba these days?
0:16:16.883 - 0:16:20.472
Entrepreneurs? For sure. After
Obama
0:16:20.472 - 0:16:26.352
normalizations opening with Cuba. The entrepreneurship in Cuba just booming.
0:16:26.352 - 0:16:29.058
It was huge at that moment.
0:16:29.058 - 0:16:33.257
And I thought that it was gonna stop during the pandemic, but it's huge.
0:16:33.257 - 0:16:35.291
There's a lot of young people
0:16:35.291 - 0:16:39.923
trying to do business in Cuba, trying to create a future in Cuba.
0:16:39.923 - 0:16:44.791
I have- most of my friends that are still in Cuba are entrepreneurs.
0:16:44.791 - 0:16:50.217
Yeah. They just studying art, whatever. But now they are businesswomen.
0:16:50.217 - 0:16:54.974
And are those, Liz, are those are some of those businesses geared to
tourism?
0:16:54.974 - 0:17:03.459
I mean, you know, Trump designated Cuba a terrorist state shortly after he became president.
0:17:03.459 - 0:17:05.854
Has that affected tourism?
0:17:05.854 - 0:17:09.310
Yeah, "state sponsor of terrorism." And that's, well,
0:17:11.168 - 0:17:16.131
tourism right now in Cuba is really low in my opinion.
0:17:16.131 - 0:17:17.763
I don't have the data
0:17:17.763 - 0:17:24.154
but you can notice just walking around all Havana in central Havana
0:17:24.154 - 0:17:31.506
that you barely see tourism, because it's not just affecting US citizens to come into Cuba.
0:17:31.506 - 0:17:35.099
It's affecting European citizens coming to Cuba, too.
0:17:35.637 - 0:17:40.673
Listen, you are going to see a golden age.
0:17:40.673 - 0:17:43.541
I'm telling you, because like what Ian said at the beginning,
0:17:43.541 - 0:17:49.615
Cuba's been isolated for so long, but the people and the culture is so incredibly
rich.
0:17:49.615 - 0:17:52.670
It's so powerful, the culture in Cuba.
0:17:52.670 - 0:17:59.778
And because Cuba has kept all of the shit of the West
0:17:59.778 - 0:18:03.982
from permeating its beautiful borders,
0:18:05.182 - 0:18:08.130
you're not homogenized like the rest of the world.
0:18:08.130 - 0:18:10.801
I mean there are very few places, as Ian said, where you go and you
0:18:10.801 - 0:18:13.495
actually feel the authenticity of the
place
0:18:13.495 - 0:18:15.285
its intrinsic self.A
0:18:15.285 - 0:18:19.481
And so the fact that Cuba has been isolated, eventually,
0:18:19.481 - 0:18:25.614
and I think in the not-too-long future or whatever that expression is
0:18:26.054 - 0:18:27.928
I think Cuba is going to become like
0:18:27.928 - 0:18:31.783
a tourism paradise for like 5 years because
0:18:31.783 - 0:18:34.113
everyone's going to go there when they can cuz
0:18:34.113 - 0:18:35.404
it's so unique
0:18:35.404 - 0:18:41.596
and then after 5 years of everyone going, it's going to turn into a homogenized kind of city
0:18:41.596 - 0:18:43.044
like every other country.
0:18:43.044 - 0:18:47.354
Havana will become like so many other great cities and
0:18:47.354 - 0:18:52.092
that look like all the other
cities with all the franchise chain shops.
0:18:52.092 - 0:18:56.085
So be grateful that you've been isolated, cuz you will have your day.
0:18:56.085 - 0:18:57.977
I am sure.
0:18:57.977 - 0:19:00.864
Well, I don't know if we'll survive until that day, but
0:19:00.864 - 0:19:01.971
Oh, you will.
0:19:01.971 - 0:19:06.160
The thing is it's always, it's a real, like Justine says, it's a double-edged sword
0:19:06.160 - 0:19:08.211
because if you take the Malacon, Yeah.
0:19:08.211 - 0:19:12.868
Which is the best seafront of any city, let alone a capitalist city.
0:19:12.868 - 0:19:17.834
It's like three miles of just beautiful, you know, it's rough.
0:19:17.834 - 0:19:23.685
The sea comes over. You've got all the Spanish old buildings crumbling and there're people dancing.
0:19:23.685 - 0:19:30.000
There's about, when I was there 10
years, there's about five restaurants along there and that's it.
0:19:30.000 - 0:19:33.518
There's nothing there which makes
it brilliant. Do you know what I mean?
0:19:33.518 - 0:19:41.284
But within, you know, America coming in within, you know, clink of the eye,
0:19:41.284 - 0:19:46.156
you're going to have McDonald's, you're going to have KFC, you're going to have
this, that, and the other. It's just going to take
0:19:46.156 - 0:19:47.356
over like that.
0:19:47.600 - 0:19:49.866
So that is the sort of double edge
on one level.
0:19:49.866 - 0:19:52.338
Of course, you need, you know, we need to go.
0:19:52.338 - 0:19:57.600
Plus, like you say, Liz, I think that
there'll be a mass migration to America as well.
0:19:57.600 - 0:20:02.055
So that for me that's that's the two huge problems that it would just-
0:20:02.055 - 0:20:05.061
frightening to say, because everyone in Cuba would say,
0:20:05.061 - 0:20:09.257
"no we would never lose identity or never-" which is true
0:20:09.257 - 0:20:12.356
but you're going to be just swamped with crap.
0:20:12.992 - 0:20:14.918
Yeah.
0:20:15.260 - 0:20:18.634
But what I don't know, when I think about
0:20:19.661 - 0:20:27.363
the future, or at least the Cuba that I really would like to see in the future.
0:20:27.363 - 0:20:35.182
That doesn't have anything to do with that kind of having Starbucks or McDonald's or KFC
0:20:35.182 - 0:20:37.790
What's the Cuba you'd like to see?
0:20:40.391 - 0:20:44.858
I would like to see the Cuba where access to culture
0:20:44.858 - 0:20:50.749
sports, science... and it was possible for kids
0:20:50.749 - 0:20:57.383
like no matter where your class... I
would like to be a Cuba with more equality
0:20:57.383 - 0:20:58.779
with more social justice
0:20:58.779 - 0:21:02.336
But right now the scarcity
is so bad
0:21:02.336 - 0:21:08.971
that even if you go to the doctor and you have you have someone seeing you
0:21:08.971 - 0:21:12.693
maybe they don't have the medications to give to you
0:21:12.693 - 0:21:17.139
or they don't have the test labs that you need
0:21:17.139 - 0:21:20.785
because of lack of resources and the lack of raw materials.
0:21:20.785 - 0:21:26.142
Can you - what's the travel
arrangements for a Cuban to go abroad?
0:21:26.142 - 0:21:28.075
That's quite restricted, isn't it?
0:21:28.075 - 0:21:31.191
Well, but it's not because of Cuba.
0:21:31.191 - 0:21:34.445
It's because of the rest of the country-
0:21:34.445 - 0:21:34.945
-and the rest of the world.
0:21:34.945 - 0:21:42.189
Yeah, it's the rest of the world because as a citizen from the "third world,"
0:21:42.189 - 0:21:49.005
we need a lot of visas and a
lot of requirements that we need to accomplish in order to do some traveling.
0:21:49.005 - 0:21:55.105
And so I just- and I have been thinking about traveling a lot
0:21:55.105 - 0:21:58.848
and how it became a privilege for the people
0:21:58.848 - 0:22:05.020
who are coming from the western countries to travel around the world without asking visas or
0:22:05.020 - 0:22:07.562
having any troubles to travel with.
0:22:07.562 - 0:22:13.119
Yeah. Unless you come from the Americas, I suppose, then
it's a right pain in the ass to get to Cuba.
0:22:13.119 - 0:22:17.836
Well, you know, I was just thinking that, you just said earlier about the privilege Westerners have
0:22:18.080 - 0:22:22.107
around travel. And I think normally I don't really think about a visa
0:22:22.107 - 0:22:27.549
being something that will, you know, stop me from wanting to go somewhere
0:22:27.549 - 0:22:31.842
cuz, you know, for Westerners, we can go to so many places without visas.
0:22:31.842 - 0:22:39.219
But Liz, if you wanted to go to any place in South America, Central America, Mexico,
0:22:39.219 - 0:22:42.012
do you need a visa to go to those places from Cuba?
0:22:42.012 - 0:22:44.131
Yeah, I need a visa to go to the DR.
0:22:44.131 - 0:22:46.050
Dominican Republic?
0:22:46.050 - 0:22:48.580
DR, yeah.
0:22:48.580 - 0:22:50.937
You you need a visa to go there?
0:22:50.937 - 0:22:53.176
Gosh, that's... wow.
0:22:53.176 - 0:22:58.570
What is Cuba doing that's
so bad that nobody wants Cubans? I'm sorry.
0:22:58.570 - 0:23:04.633
It's crazy, because the first time that I asked for a visa to travel to the United States,
0:23:04.633 - 0:23:10.392
I asked for a visa in Cuba to a Colombian embassy to go to Colombia to ask for a visa
0:23:10.392 - 0:23:15.319
to go to the United States because...
0:23:15.319 - 0:23:17.690
that was to come back to Cuba to go to the United States.
0:23:17.690 - 0:23:18.805
That was crazy.
0:23:18.805 - 0:23:21.794
So where where did you go in the United
States?
0:23:21.794 - 0:23:26.880
Oh, a lot of places. We we did a tour.
0:23:28.160 - 0:23:29.841
Hi, I'm Liz.
0:23:29.841 - 0:23:33.772
I'm from Cuba, but right now I'm in the United States.
0:23:38.025 - 0:23:40.474
This is my first time in this country.
0:23:40.474 - 0:23:43.675
I didn't come as a tourist or an immigrant.
0:23:43.675 - 0:23:47.626
I'm a journalist and my reporting in Cuba led me here.
0:23:47.626 - 0:23:51.293
So, tell me one thing that really stood out for you.
0:23:51.293 - 0:23:58.985
What's the story you tell at a dinner party about what you saw on the bus when you were in blah blah blah city in
the United States?
0:23:58.985 - 0:24:01.665
What what do you remember seeing that just blew you away?
0:24:01.665 - 0:24:03.605
Blew your mind?
0:24:04.925 - 0:24:08.527
Yeah, I agree. There's nothing there, is there? Yeah, I can't either think either.
0:24:10.000 - 0:24:13.837
Well, I don't know. I really I- well
0:24:13.837 - 0:24:21.859
I need to say that I really love the United States.
0:24:21.859 - 0:24:28.090
I think like the geography is really, and the nature, really stand out for me.
0:24:28.090 - 0:24:31.301
I really love that. I really love the squirrels.
0:24:31.301 - 0:24:32.592
The squirrels?
0:24:32.592 - 0:24:38.430
We don't have squirrels
outside the United States-
Ian (overlapping) Oh, that's classic. "Let me think... Squirrels!"
0:24:38.430 - 0:24:43.193
I really think, because that's was really curious for me-
Ian (overlapping): I love that.
0:24:43.193 - 0:24:45.032
-and I spent like a lot of time in Washington DC and they have a lot of parks.
0:24:45.032 - 0:24:49.318
So, you can see a lot of squirrels and I was like a fascinated by the squirrels.
0:24:49.318 - 0:24:52.998
I was also fascinated by-
Ian (overlapping): that's the best answer I've ever heard.
0:24:52.998 - 0:24:56.252
The squirrels! That's fantastic.
0:24:56.252 - 0:25:03.037
The million flavors of ice cream that you have. I really love cheese sticks,
0:25:03.037 - 0:25:06.824
but the thing is-
Justine (overlapping) What's your favorite flavor? What's your favorite?
0:25:06.824 - 0:25:09.723
Or did you just have a different flavor favorite every day?
0:25:09.723 - 0:25:18.710
I think like salted caramel or pumpkin spice is something that was for the season for the fall...
0:25:18.710 - 0:25:24.587
I don't remember the name. They have like a fancy night for normal flavors, but that was good.
0:25:25.810 - 0:25:27.800
What did the squirrels taste like?
0:25:27.800 - 0:25:29.033
[laughing]
0:25:29.702 - 0:25:33.783
But I have to say that the things that stuck more for me
0:25:33.783 - 0:25:35.975
and it wasn't in the best way, was
0:25:35.975 - 0:25:41.135
when I was in California, in San Francisco.
0:25:41.135 - 0:25:46.642
The amount of homeless people in downtown, that was overwhelming.
0:25:46.642 - 0:25:50.587
Justine: The tent encampments?
Ian: Shocking.
0:25:50.587 - 0:25:54.014
Liz: the tents, the people like zombies,
0:25:54.014 - 0:25:59.181
but there were like hundreds of them in just...
0:25:59.572 - 0:26:02.741
because all of them were concentrated in the same place and
0:26:02.741 - 0:26:05.654
you have like the fancy towers and hotels and down,
0:26:05.654 - 0:26:08.527
you have the people walking around, like it's so many.
0:26:08.527 - 0:26:13.608
Yeah, I think you were, cuz San Francisco's just a stones throw across the bay there. Yeah.
0:26:13.608 - 0:26:18.506
I think you were in the tenderloin district probably.
0:26:18.506 - 0:26:20.365
Liz: Los Angeles too. And I was really...
0:26:21.196 - 0:26:24.215
like when people think about the United States they think
0:26:24.215 - 0:26:31.421
like, fancy life, cars and cafes/ Supermarkets full of stuff.
0:26:31.421 - 0:26:33.554
A lot of consumption.
0:26:33.554 - 0:26:37.344
But they never have these pictures in their head.
Ian: Yeah.
0:26:37.784 - 0:26:42.804
There's not a huge drug problem in Cuba is there? Huh?
0:26:43.293 - 0:26:47.864
There's not a huge drug drug problem in Cuba, is there?
It's quite strict on people.
0:26:47.864 - 0:26:50.000
It's not. It's not.
0:26:50.000 - 0:26:54.232
what I found in Cuba... There's something special about the people.
0:26:54.232 - 0:26:59.977
There's something special, the way they bloody move, for God's sake, the way they interact and that casualness,
0:26:59.977 - 0:27:04.545
everything's like, you know, I'm saying, oh, you know, we're happy all the time.
0:27:04.545 - 0:27:09.227
But my god, there is something special with the people,
the essence and the spirit.
0:27:09.227 - 0:27:12.826
Even when we was filming, that was 30 years ago. There's a mckismo there.
0:27:12.826 - 0:27:15.076
There's a dancing. It's physical.
0:27:15.076 - 0:27:20.226
It's like, we were interviewing a 90-year-old geezer who had cigar the size of a small town.
0:27:20.226 - 0:27:26.907
And we had two women. They was in their like late 20s, 30s.
0:27:26.907 - 0:27:28.314
He's all over them!
0:27:28.314 - 0:27:31.663
He's hitting on them like he's so smooth, and then they're like,
0:27:31.663 - 0:27:33.803
"Look!" he's like, "Come on, baby."
0:27:33.803 - 0:27:37.309
You know, his teeth are worse than mine. And he's still-
0:27:37.309 - 0:27:38.295
and that's just brilliant.
0:27:38.295 - 0:27:43.784
There's something so special in Cuba that I haven't experienced anywhere else.
0:27:43.784 - 0:27:47.421
And I think for people like me who've never been to Cuba,
0:27:47.421 - 0:27:52.163
my experience of Cuba is the music, the dancing.
0:28:04.482 - 0:28:06.887
Cuba. Music.
0:28:06.887 - 0:28:08.980
Here in the back streets of Havana.
0:28:08.980 - 0:28:13.462
It throbs with a rumba. It was created here by the black kids that live in the area.
0:28:13.462 - 0:28:17.887
It's a cross between African rhythms and Spanish melody.
0:28:17.887 - 0:28:21.874
And I feel myself just getting [choked up sound]
0:28:29.403 - 0:28:32.580
Ian VO: this is the most racially diverse country in the Caribbean.
0:28:32.580 - 0:28:34.640
The majority of the population are a
0:28:34.640 - 0:28:37.873
mixture of European, African, and indigenous Indian,
0:28:37.873 - 0:28:42.295
but the music is distinctively Cuban.
0:28:45.131 - 0:28:49.217
Justine: I mean, what Cuba's brought to
the world culturally,
0:28:49.217 - 0:28:53.998
I mean, look at any musician anywhere in the world,
0:28:53.998 - 0:28:57.214
you know, there's been an influence coming from Cuba.
0:28:57.214 - 0:29:01.071
It's an island the size of a pea.
Yeah?
0:29:01.071 - 0:29:04.159
And the music, like Justine says, just explodes, you know?
0:29:04.159 - 0:29:05.787
It's just like, wow.
0:29:05.787 - 0:29:10.706
Ian VO: This is what I love about Cuba. It's like everything happens on the streets.
0:29:10.706 - 0:29:15.388
Day and night. Everybody's out, you know. Makes a real buzzy atmosphere.
0:29:15.388 - 0:29:18.307
Got everything going.
There's even a bit of music over there.
0:29:18.307 - 0:29:21.036
Of course!
0:29:24.604 - 0:29:29.760
Cuban music has such an infectious rhythm.
It even gets me dancing.
0:29:36.960 - 0:29:42.960
If I didn't have another train to
catch, I'd happily stay here for hours.
0:29:45.600 - 0:29:48.835
So, tell me that about like when you want to dance,
0:29:48.835 - 0:29:52.304
do you just sort of dance with your friends in the living room?
0:29:52.304 - 0:29:54.473
Or do you go to a club, or...?
0:29:54.473 - 0:29:58.147
I think like the most of the time I just dance in my home with my mom.
0:29:58.436 - 0:30:00.507
Wow.
0:30:02.560 - 0:30:05.874
You said most of the time you dance with your mom at home?
0:30:05.874 - 0:30:09.148
Yeah. And my dad. Yeah. We just dance at home.
0:30:09.148 - 0:30:12.703
We play music and we dance.
0:30:12.703 - 0:30:18.770
Because we... I'm feeling really old to go out all night long.
0:30:18.770 - 0:30:20.114
Think how we feel!
0:30:20.114 - 0:30:25.179
I feel old sitting in this bloody studio looking at you. Really annoying.
0:30:25.961 - 0:30:31.323
(overlapping) People dance everywhere. There's no- they don't stop.
0:30:31.323 - 0:30:36.298
They're just there dancing. It could be an alleyway, could be in your hotel room.
0:30:36.298 - 0:30:37.976
God, it's great.
0:30:37.976 - 0:30:47.101
And also, they said the Cuban salsa or the dance, it's more free form, less rigid than most other dances similar to that.
0:30:48.225 - 0:30:50.405
But that's the Cuban spirit, I
would say.
0:30:51.089 - 0:30:54.956
Yeah. Yeah. It's like just having fun.
0:30:54.956 - 0:30:57.194
It's like, and this is something that I really like,
0:30:57.194 - 0:31:01.711
because I know people from other cultures and they say "I don't know how to dance"
0:31:01.711 - 0:31:04.741
and it's like, what do you mean with that?
0:31:04.741 - 0:31:08.786
Like, just dance, just feel the music and let go and they're like
0:31:08.786 - 0:31:11.941
"no no no" because they are thinking like, in order to dance
0:31:11.941 - 0:31:15.048
you need to take classes to dance
and in Cuba you just born
0:31:15.048 - 0:31:19.215
and people in your family just encourage you just to move your body
0:31:19.215 - 0:31:20.752
and that's how you start.
0:31:20.752 - 0:31:24.976
I mean there's millions of things that we could learn from Cuba like you said, so much.
0:31:24.976 - 0:31:28.676
But the extraordinary thing about Cuba is the recycling.
0:31:28.676 - 0:31:34.255
I mean, you recycle more than any other country that I've ever been to, through necessity.
0:31:34.939 - 0:31:38.687
Liz VO: In Cuba, we are used to getting by one way or another.
0:31:38.687 - 0:31:41.147
We call it resolver.
0:31:41.147 - 0:31:44.074
We take junk and make it useful,
0:31:44.074 - 0:31:49.600
and we use what we have to survive and improve our lives.
0:31:51.200 - 0:31:56.358
We are tough, resilient, and we need to be.
0:31:56.358 - 0:32:01.158
Cuz like if it's a train, like you've got a Soviet train engine,
0:32:01.158 - 0:32:03.587
then you've got an American 30s
train,
0:32:03.587 - 0:32:07.704
then you got a Romanian passenger thing, all with no new parts.
0:32:07.704 - 0:32:10.553
Same with the cars that are just fantastic.
0:32:10.553 - 0:32:13.809
No new parts, no nothing, never coming.
0:32:13.809 - 0:32:18.047
They make everything and they're like, "Well, we've been keeping this going for 70 years"
0:32:18.047 - 0:32:21.801
"We can keep it going for another 70 years." You know, recycling everything.
0:32:21.801 - 0:32:24.617
It's- there's no place that does that.
0:32:24.617 - 0:32:28.187
Did you ride on the trains when you were there, Ian?
0:32:28.187 - 0:32:30.625
Oh, god. Yeah. Did a whole program on trains.
0:32:31.065 - 0:32:34.912
Ian VO: As the saying goes, necessity is the mother of invention.
0:32:34.912 - 0:32:38.366
And that's certainly true here, where the mechanics somehow
0:32:38.366 - 0:32:45.306
keep the old 1950s American trains going, just like Cuba's classic cars are kept on the road, too,
0:32:45.306 - 0:32:50.946
despite spare parts being almost
impossible to get because of the US embargo.
0:32:55.004 - 0:33:00.446
Since the revolution, they've kept these locomotives going for 60 years
0:33:00.446 - 0:33:04.084
by making all the parts, nothing brand new.
0:33:04.084 - 0:33:07.548
And they say that they could probably keep them going for another 60 years
0:33:07.548 - 0:33:09.174
and even beyond that.
0:33:09.174 - 0:33:14.600
For me, that's like your perfect recycling. Doesn't get better than that.
0:33:14.600 - 0:33:16.094
Well, that's the other thing.
0:33:16.094 - 0:33:19.418
When you get to Cuba, you just sit on the street and just watch.
0:33:19.418 - 0:33:25.086
I mean, it's just those cars are just...
there's no place like it as well.
0:33:25.086 - 0:33:26.024
Amazing.
0:33:26.024 - 0:33:28.068
Those old American cars?
Yes.
0:33:28.068 - 0:33:31.917
All them lovely big 40s, 50s, you know.
0:33:31.917 - 0:33:35.689
Are people still driving those around?
Yeah, they're everywhere.
0:33:35.689 - 0:33:37.575
I mean-
Justine: and they people still drive them?
0:33:37.575 - 0:33:41.809
They fix them, they break down, they fix them, they drive them.
Ian: Yeah.
0:33:41.809 - 0:33:46.614
There's probably every car's 95% of it is, you know, a made part
0:33:46.614 - 0:33:50.101
because it's, you know, but they keep them going.
0:33:50.101 - 0:33:55.939
That is one of the identities of Cuba and especially Havana, is just ridiculous.
0:33:57.357 - 0:34:00.689
Oh, unbelievable.
0:34:00.689 - 0:34:02.037
Look at these things.
0:34:02.037 - 0:34:04.294
They're just so stunning. They're so beautiful.
0:34:04.294 - 0:34:05.859
They're like pieces of art.
0:34:05.859 - 0:34:10.720
And it's not just like one or two. They're just everywhere in this city.
0:34:11.440 - 0:34:14.467
And of course, you got to have a ride.
0:34:14.467 - 0:34:17.537
You can't come here without having a ride. Gracias, señor!
0:34:17.537 - 0:34:21.535
Feel that lever on your butt.
0:34:22.464 - 0:34:27.747
Ah, forward, Jeeves!
0:34:31.462 - 0:34:33.556
Justine: Liz, let me ask you a question.
0:34:33.556 - 0:34:39.478
If you do go there as a tourist, what's the crime situation like in Cuba?
0:34:39.478 - 0:34:43.352
Well, Cuba is one of the safest places in the world still.
0:34:43.352 - 0:34:44.485
Yeah. No, I agree.
0:34:44.485 - 0:34:48.502
I just walk along the streets
on the night. Of course, I'm a woman.
0:34:48.502 - 0:34:55.556
I'm a woman. I'm paying attention who's walking behind me, but I'm doing that.
0:34:55.556 - 0:34:58.290
And my my friends, too, so it's it's okay.
0:34:58.290 - 0:35:02.809
Yeah. And everyone's on the street at night as well just like just serenading
0:35:02.809 - 0:35:05.301
just walking and the street lights
0:35:05.301 - 0:35:10.298
there's only about 30% street lighting but you don't feel threatened
0:35:10.298 - 0:35:13.751
and when people come in from the big house on Varadero
0:35:13.751 - 0:35:16.111
They're like (scaredd voice) "oh we're coming in for the day to Havana"
0:35:16.111 - 0:35:18.597
"oh everyone's-" and we're like, "what are you talking about?"
0:35:18.597 - 0:35:22.378
"There's not, it's not-" "Oh we've heard
stories about robberies and-"
0:35:22.378 - 0:35:26.098
and we're like-
Liz (overlapping): of course, just like everywhere...
0:35:26.098 - 0:35:29.108
it's the most safest place on Earth. It's just so chill.
0:35:29.108 - 0:35:31.831
There, you know, like you say, there's hardly any crime.
0:35:31.831 - 0:35:33.770
Yeah yeah yeah.
0:35:33.770 - 0:35:34.631
Can you hitchhike?
0:35:34.631 - 0:35:36.175
Do people hitchhike in Cuba?
0:35:36.566 - 0:35:38.039
Hitchhike. What is that?
0:35:38.039 - 0:35:40.291
When you stick your thumb out-
Ian (overlapping): at the side of the road
0:35:40.291 - 0:35:42.367
and anyone can pick you up.
0:35:42.367 - 0:35:44.348
Oh, botella.
0:35:44.348 - 0:35:46.874
Botella. Is that what it's called?
0:35:46.874 - 0:35:51.117
Like you want to get a lift somewhere-
Liz (overlapping): when they're driving a
car and they stop
0:35:51.117 - 0:35:54.789
and take you for the place that you need to be? Like take a ride?
0:35:54.789 - 0:35:56.901
Yeah. You call that bo-?
0:35:56.901 - 0:35:59.080
Botella. We call it botella. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
0:35:59.080 - 0:36:02.055
But not as a tourist. It's not as easy.
0:36:02.055 - 0:36:03.046
Liz: No, the tourists don't do that.
0:36:03.046 - 0:36:07.131
But for example- I have a friend from Spain
0:36:07.131 - 0:36:11.077
and she loved to do that on the road
when she needs to go from
0:36:11.468 - 0:36:12.973
a province to another one.
0:36:12.973 - 0:36:15.192
So she did, she did do that, botella.
0:36:15.192 - 0:36:16.811
Justine: She does botella.
0:36:16.811 - 0:36:19.431
And what do you do- Can
you show me on camera-?
0:36:19.431 - 0:36:20.874
It's the cheapest way to move around.
0:36:20.874 - 0:36:23.854
What do you do with your hand to show that you want a lift?
0:36:23.854 - 0:36:26.349
We don't do this (thumbs up). We do this (points).
0:36:26.349 - 0:36:28.261
Ah, okay. Like that.
0:36:28.261 - 0:36:30.267
Bringing the car down with your
mind.
0:36:30.267 - 0:36:31.857
Like, slow down-
0:36:31.857 - 0:36:34.557
But you move your body like it's like-
0:36:35.926 - 0:36:40.155
And I have to ask you,
what are some foods in Cuba
0:36:40.155 - 0:36:45.112
that you think are really special, and what's your favorite?
0:36:45.112 - 0:36:47.157
And Ian, what's your favorite foods in Cuba?
0:36:47.157 - 0:36:51.973
Yeah, I'm going to ask that, too. Avocados. Mango.
0:36:51.973 - 0:36:53.399
Avocado- right. Yeah. Yeah.
0:36:53.399 - 0:36:56.165
Avocados in Cuba are the best avocados in the world.
0:36:56.165 - 0:36:59.363
I don't have to discuss that with anyone. Period.
0:36:59.363 - 0:37:02.749
Yeah. Okay. All right. But I do want to do want to say generally
0:37:02.749 - 0:37:03.911
Cuban food? Rubbish.
0:37:03.911 - 0:37:04.916
Rubbish?!
0:37:04.916 - 0:37:05.758
Yeah.
0:37:05.758 - 0:37:09.468
Ian (jokingly): What's going on? Where's the spices? Where's all the herbs and stuff?
0:37:09.468 - 0:37:11.116
I think in your kitchen,
0:37:11.360 - 0:37:14.481
in your homes, you know, you can knock it, when we was with the family,
0:37:14.481 - 0:37:16.980
they would knock out a nice little bit and especially do a bit of fishing and stuff and nice.
0:37:16.980 - 0:37:22.591
But generally if you got Jamaica, which I think... this is my theory
0:37:22.591 - 0:37:23.482
shoot me down.
0:37:23.781 - 0:37:29.627
Because of the communist thing, food was seen as a functional thing.
0:37:29.627 - 0:37:32.171
So it didn't develop the cuisine as much as...
0:37:32.171 - 0:37:36.400
you take Jamaica, some of the- you know, that's a smaller island than bloody Cuba
0:37:36.400 - 0:37:38.471
and it's got one of the best cuisines in the world!
0:37:38.471 - 0:37:39.816
Herb, spices, everything.
0:37:39.816 - 0:37:44.392
It's an explosion of cuisine, whereas Cuba, not quite the same.
0:37:44.392 - 0:37:46.480
There you go. I said it!
0:37:46.480 - 0:37:48.477
What you got to say to that, Liz?
0:37:48.477 - 0:37:53.194
Yeah, and I can I understand where this is coming from.
0:37:53.194 - 0:37:57.538
We don't like spices. I like spices, but that's not the normal thing.
0:37:57.538 - 0:38:01.654
I have a lot of spices in my home and also a lot of chili,
0:38:01.654 - 0:38:04.552
but people in Cuba don't like spicy food.
0:38:04.552 - 0:38:07.326
No. No. But they don't, they hate it-
0:38:07.326 - 0:38:13.670
They can't tolerate- they can't notice the difference between black pepper and chili.
0:38:13.670 - 0:38:14.994
Yeah.
0:38:14.994 - 0:38:16.103
For them, it's all the same.
0:38:16.103 - 0:38:21.381
And also the hotels and that, the food there's... yeah well, I mean it's probably better now
0:38:21.381 - 0:38:22.249
but, ughl.
0:38:22.249 - 0:38:24.562
Justine: and it's also a question of access, right, it's like
0:38:24.562 - 0:38:29.274
how- you know, it's a small island how, you know... getting stuff -
0:38:29.274 - 0:38:32.048
we also have Indo-Chile- it's also about culture
0:38:32.048 - 0:38:36.606
Yes, yeah, yeah, it's a culture but I think it's been stamped out by the Soviet
0:38:36.606 - 0:38:41.848
that's why I get so mad because it's such a, you know, it's a Caribbean island for god's sake
0:38:41.848 - 0:38:45.622
and it's had a Soviet influence. That's just, you know,
0:38:45.622 - 0:38:49.483
and the people are the most free [cavalier noises] and then the Soviets turn up
0:38:49.483 - 0:38:53.227
"let's turn let's build this really interesting cell block"
Justine (overlapping): Ian, I have a question-
0:38:53.227 - 0:38:54.471
[Dalek voice] Exterminate!
[Normal voice] What?
0:38:54.471 - 0:38:57.897
Did you try avocados?
0:38:57.897 - 0:39:01.379
No, you're right, there.
0:39:01.379 - 0:39:03.003
You have to, you must.
(overlapping) Right, you win!
0:39:03.003 - 0:39:05.841
You win this time, but I'll get you next time!
0:39:05.841 - 0:39:07.338
Well, mango?
0:39:07.338 - 0:39:09.538
Mango...
Justine (overlapping) I love mango
0:39:09.538 - 0:39:13.271
Mango chutney, I'm not into mango to be honest, I don't do fruit,
Liz (overlapping) Not into mango?!
0:39:13.271 - 0:39:19.478
I find it quite boring, but I like mango chutney, but it's too stringy and too- I don't do fruit.
0:39:19.478 - 0:39:24.201
Fruit, I find boring, but that's my problem and I'm dealing with it.
0:39:24.201 - 0:39:25.647
I'm seeing someone about it.
0:39:25.647 - 0:39:27.064
We're talking.
0:39:27.064 - 0:39:29.519
Next time I see you maybe.
0:39:29.519 - 0:39:33.200
I'm going to save a little avenida chile for you when you come to Cuba.
Ian: Thank you.
0:39:33.200 - 0:39:39.180
Yeah. But I can just say Cuba for me and my wife is probably one of the best places I've been.
0:39:39.180 - 0:39:41.982
I just... everything about it I love.
0:39:41.982 - 0:39:49.746
It's just so so great. It's like, oh man, so chilled.
0:39:49.746 - 0:39:54.335
Ah, the music wafting, the little bars [whistling]
0:39:54.335 - 0:39:55.842
Justine: Well, what is the alcohol?
0:39:55.842 - 0:39:58.424
What's the alcohol most people drink there?
0:39:58.424 - 0:40:03.620
Rum! Cuba Libra, the little lie as they call it, because it ain't freedom.
0:40:03.620 - 0:40:07.673
Well, most of the people in Cuba just drink, like, straight rum.
0:40:07.673 - 0:40:13.093
They don't put anything on it. That's
exactly the relationship for some people.
0:40:13.093 - 0:40:18.502
But yeah. Yeah. But they drink rum. They drink-
0:40:18.502 - 0:40:22.276
canchanchara, aguardiente, that's really good.
0:40:22.276 - 0:40:24.333
Agua? Agua-?
0:40:24.333 - 0:40:27.303
Aguardientea, yeah.
0:40:27.303 - 0:40:31.847
Like a-
Liz: it's a kind of more... less crafted rum.
0:40:31.847 - 0:40:34.490
I love it! It's still rum.
0:40:35.223 - 0:40:39.280
Even the water tastes like rum.
0:40:43.600 - 0:40:46.185
At the end of the day, everyone comes
down here
0:40:46.185 - 0:40:49.479
and exchanges opinions about the revolution to each other.
0:40:49.479 - 0:40:52.118
Drink loads of rum, waiting for tomorrow.
0:40:52.118 - 0:40:54.015
None will make it tomorrow.
0:41:04.232 - 0:41:09.373
Ian VO: As the evening wears on, things start to
get a little bit out of control.
0:41:11.231 - 0:41:21.908
[unintelligible, attempting to sing in Spanish]
0:41:23.961 - 0:41:25.064
[laughing at Ian in Spanish]
0:41:29.094 - 0:41:30.543
I've lost the pick.
0:41:32.010 - 0:41:34.682
They've put a hole in the guitar.
What silly idea was that?
0:41:34.682 - 0:41:40.046
It's like, for a big bottle, even a good rum, it's like about $3.
0:41:40.046 - 0:41:45.709
It's, for us, being us traveling there, so cheap. It's ridiculous. You can't not drink it.
0:41:45.709 - 0:41:49.733
Justine: Is there a lot- Do people drink a lot of alcohol?
0:41:49.733 - 0:41:54.346
I mean, I don't know. Like, is alcohol use a problem?
0:41:54.346 - 0:41:55.717
No.
0:41:55.717 - 0:42:00.640
No. They drink a lot of it, but not in a state where... I haven't seen it as much.
0:42:00.640 - 0:42:04.083
Well, they're burning- everyone's burning it off all the time, right, with the dancing.
0:42:04.083 - 0:42:05.212
Yeah, exactly.
0:42:05.212 - 0:42:06.380
Yeah.
0:42:07.113 - 0:42:14.952
Liz, do you have any questions for Ian, having seen his show or just anything at all about him?
0:42:14.952 - 0:42:17.523
He's rather unusual.
0:42:17.523 - 0:42:20.796
Not quite as interesting as a squirrel, but-
0:42:20.796 - 0:42:23.859
Nothing- You can't
compete with the American squirrels.
0:42:23.859 - 0:42:25.960
You just can't compete-
Liz (overlapping) Yeah, exactly.
0:42:25.960 - 0:42:30.839
They're unique, yeah. They're one of the best parts of the country. Yeah.
0:42:30.839 - 0:42:32.014
Tell me about it.
0:42:32.014 - 0:42:35.255
I don't know. I can- I have, like, so many questions, like,
0:42:35.255 - 0:42:44.219
if you could change one thing about Cuba, what would it be? Like we can just say, the food is already said, so, done.
0:42:44.219 - 0:42:45.603
Another one?
0:42:45.603 - 0:42:51.151
I'm not sure about change, but what I would do is because
0:42:51.151 - 0:42:55.501
obviously when the borders come down, which is, you know, just a matter of time
0:42:55.501 - 0:43:02.865
because what threat is Cuba to anybody rather than, you know, they dance you off the dance floor?
0:43:02.865 - 0:43:05.854
That's the only threat I can see and that's quite a big threat.
0:43:05.854 - 0:43:07.455
I feel threatened by that.
0:43:08.237 - 0:43:14.143
But it's the fact that when a country, it might be America, could be China,
0:43:14.143 - 0:43:19.579
cuz they're just waiting to get
into Cuba, to not destroy it,
0:43:19.579 - 0:43:23.245
but just to suck it dry of all its beautifulness.
0:43:23.245 - 0:43:27.841
So you need a strong government or a strong people to resist that
0:43:27.841 - 0:43:33.190
and do it gradually and keep control of it somehow
0:43:33.190 - 0:43:38.558
so it doesn't, cuz, you know, big companies don't care whether we live or die
0:43:38.558 - 0:43:40.582
as long as they make money.
0:43:40.582 - 0:43:45.993
So my worst fear is the fact that big companies will come in and swell it up
0:43:45.993 - 0:43:51.017
and, you know, dismantle it in a way or turn it into like a Disneyland
0:43:51.017 - 0:44:01.769
in a way, absurdly, ironically, turn it
back into why Fidel and Che Guevara started the revolution.
0:44:01.769 - 0:44:08.561
You know, it's, there's a fear that it might go back to being a western, you know, play place.
0:44:08.561 - 0:44:12.621
So that would- that's my dream and that's my hope for Cuba.
0:44:12.621 - 0:44:14.147
Oh me too.
0:44:14.147 - 0:44:16.172
Yeah, of course. Of course.
0:44:16.172 - 0:44:19.402
That that's so beautifully put.
0:44:19.402 - 0:44:24.593
Okay, Liz, let us ask you, almost the final question, is what would you do
0:44:24.593 - 0:44:28.072
if you could change one thing in Cuba?
0:44:28.072 - 0:44:32.521
Well, I would say one thing that I never change- the people.
0:44:32.521 - 0:44:37.988
The way that we are, the way that we love, the way that we dance,
0:44:38.428 - 0:44:45.558
the way that we embrace others, cultures, or-
Ian (overlapping): do you ever see that could ever change?
0:44:45.558 - 0:44:51.311
If Cuba changed really quickly?
I think that would be the one thing that you couldn't really change
0:44:51.849 - 0:44:53.871
in the Cuban soul.
0:44:53.871 - 0:44:56.626
Well, yeah, but I don't know.
0:44:56.626 - 0:44:58.301
Maybe it's under threat.
0:44:58.301 - 0:45:01.063
Yes, because Yeah. Yeah.
0:45:01.063 - 0:45:09.351
Like the way that people think and capitalists, the way that capitalism is installed in the people's brains right now
0:45:09.351 - 0:45:10.255
is not a good one.
0:45:10.255 - 0:45:15.981
Yeah. And that's thanks internet and access to internet.
0:45:15.981 - 0:45:18.943
Yeah.
People consume a lot of things that are garbage.
0:45:18.943 - 0:45:23.776
Absolutely.
And I think that we are losing our critical point of view.
0:45:23.776 - 0:45:27.524
We are not thinking or watching something critically.
0:45:27.524 - 0:45:33.094
We are just absorbing whatever information they got to us.
0:45:33.094 - 0:45:35.796
And this is not just a Cuban problem. It's the world's problem.
0:45:35.796 - 0:45:40.027
Yeah. It's overload of information which is quite clever in a way
0:45:40.027 - 0:45:46.422
instead of like hiding, it's a difference from George Orwell and Aldous Huxley.
0:45:46.422 - 0:45:52.398
Orwell's like the nanny state where Huxley is... if you just
0:45:52.398 - 0:45:56.494
flood everyone with information everyone's brain just becomes a bit mushy
0:45:56.494 - 0:46:00.389
because you can't absorb it,
like you said, Liz,
0:46:00.389 - 0:46:04.647
you can't make sort of decisions or rational things because you're just getting bombarded with it.
0:46:05.820 - 0:46:13.882
Yeah. I'm still trying to get used to this phrase, "content consumption."
0:46:13.882 - 0:46:17.576
I wondered where you was going with that, it sounded rude. Yeah.
0:46:17.576 - 0:46:19.167
No, but that you know, when you make, you know,
0:46:19.167 - 0:46:23.036
it used to be you'd make a film or you'd put on a play, you know
0:46:23.036 - 0:46:27.352
you'd make a film and... but now
it's "content" and people consume it
0:46:27.352 - 0:46:33.184
and it's sort of like bland food like the food you were describing.
0:46:33.184 - 0:46:37.335
It's just... it just kind of weighs your brain down, weighs your body down.
0:46:37.335 - 0:46:43.452
It's kind of a lot of the same. Your brain gets into this groove and it just stays in this rut
0:46:43.452 - 0:46:48.944
and it's like you're just looking at stuff on social and it's just like this groove and you're
0:46:48.944 - 0:46:56.813
you just sort of feel like your human brain processing system is just going stupid stupider stupidest
stupid stupid-
0:46:56.813 - 0:46:58.760
That's almost like the plan, in a way.
0:46:58.760 - 0:47:04.579
If, you know, there's nothing better than
dumb down people, so you can rule them, is there?
0:47:04.579 - 0:47:10.554
If everyone's sort of stuck to the phone and which everyone is, like...sorry I've got a call-
0:47:10.554 - 0:47:12.964
-like zombies then, and then-
0:47:12.964 - 0:47:17.047
that's the perfect thing.
Right, but let's just say we're all hypocrites, right?
0:47:17.047 - 0:47:22.453
Because yeah we're making a bloody thing for the phone
Ian: Oh yeah.
0:47:22.453 - 0:47:25.672
Most people are listening to this or watching it on their phone so we're all-
0:47:25.672 - 0:47:27.947
It's like slow food.
0:47:27.947 - 0:47:30.692
I really love slow food and I want it now.
0:47:30.692 - 0:47:35.385
You know, Bobby Chinn, the
the one- Bobby Chinn, who we spoke with, you know, said that.
0:47:35.385 - 0:47:40.862
I mean, we're all kind of got our feet in so many different places,
0:47:40.862 - 0:47:44.952
our values, we say, "Oh, these are my values."
0:47:44.952 - 0:47:49.547
But then you really look at how we're
living and are we really living in alignment with our values?
0:47:49.547 - 0:47:51.559
It's hard to in the modern world.
0:47:51.559 - 0:47:58.485
Yeah, but also it's not all negative like
the phone or the internet or this what we're doing, you know?
0:47:58.485 - 0:48:02.542
It's not one or the other-
Ian (overlapping) Sometimes it can be for good!
0:48:02.542 - 0:48:04.721
Well, everything is a gray area, isn't it?
0:48:04.721 - 0:48:06.563
Except for greedy motherfuckers.
0:48:06.563 - 0:48:08.440
They're just greedy motherfuckers.
0:48:08.440 - 0:48:10.735
There's one behind you now.
[Justine gasps hyperbolically]
0:48:11.175 - 0:48:12.909
Oh, no. They gone.
0:48:13.447 - 0:48:16.384
Weird. Sorry about that, Liz.
0:48:16.384 - 0:48:18.513
I didn't realize you was there. We're just off on one.
0:48:18.513 - 0:48:21.657
That's what, that's what the Western world's like now.
0:48:21.657 - 0:48:25.302
That's what happens when you get old.
0:48:25.840 - 0:48:29.182
Yeah. It'll be you soon, Liz.
You be careful out there.
0:48:29.182 - 0:48:36.369
Okay, well, listen, Liz, it's my dream to
hang out with you and go dancing with you in Cuba.
0:48:36.369 - 0:48:39.201
I'm seriously wanting to make that happen.
0:48:39.201 - 0:48:43.089
I can't wait. Oh, well, me and wife
just love it so much.
0:48:43.089 - 0:48:45.753
We'd be back in Cuba, a drop of a hat,
0:48:45.753 - 0:48:48.438
and we come and dance with
your mom and dad.
0:48:48.438 - 0:48:52.259
Yeah. At my home. Oh, my grandma's home.
(overlapping) Oh, yeah.
0:48:52.259 - 0:48:56.002
Yeah, we need to do that.
(overlapping) I'm too old for anything else.
0:48:56.002 - 0:49:00.393
Like you, Cuba is one of my favorite
places in the world as well.
0:49:00.393 - 0:49:05.732
It's so brilliant. It's so unique.
There's no place on earth like it.
0:49:05.732 - 0:49:11.899
Japan I compare it with, with the
uniqueness and the sort of the isolation.
0:49:11.899 - 0:49:15.668
Everything's different. Everything's,
you know, nothing's homogenized there.
0:49:15.668 - 0:49:21.295
It's all your own like vitality, music, life, and then
0:49:21.295 - 0:49:27.943
thrown in a bit of sort of weird Soviet communism
in a Caribbean island that's just so full of life.
0:49:27.943 - 0:49:34.111
The buildings are incredible. And then there's
Soviet blocks and it's like, what's going on?
0:49:34.111 - 0:49:36.289
It's just amazing.
0:49:36.289 - 0:49:39.955
Well, now I want to go to Japan.
0:49:39.955 - 0:49:46.683
Who doesn't? Oh man. Yeah. Yeah, you'd love it there.
0:49:46.683 - 0:49:49.821
God, then they'd love you as well. Yeah, brilliant.
0:49:49.821 - 0:49:53.960
Liz, if you, if you find yourself in the States again,
0:49:53.960 - 0:50:01.134
I would love to meet you and it's just been
so lovely spending this time with you.
0:50:01.134 - 0:50:03.931
Aw, thank you.
And, you know, I sort of feel a little bit like
0:50:03.931 - 0:50:06.152
I got to travel to Cuba today. I don't know.
0:50:06.152 - 0:50:09.764
I feel like- do you feel like a
conversation can do that, Liz?
0:50:09.764 - 0:50:11.915
Yeah, for sure.
0:50:11.915 - 0:50:16.608
I don't know about a conversation, but
you can feel the connection with people even online.
0:50:16.608 - 0:50:20.671
Yeah, I like "EVEN... online."
0:50:20.671 - 0:50:24.987
Liz, absolute pleasure.
Thank you so much, darling. You're a star.
0:50:24.987 - 0:50:26.987
You, too!
0:50:27.916 - 0:50:30.310
Besos, abrazos!
Ciao!
[Ian making sounds]
0:50:30.359 - 0:50:31.760
Gracias!
[Ian making more sounds]
0:50:33.617 - 0:50:35.617
Bye!
It's this chair!